|
|
|
Poslao: 19 Apr 2015 15:22
|
offline
- mean_machine
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 23 Dec 2006
- Poruke: 12560
|
Napisano: 19 Apr 2015 15:21
djox ::^^Jel nije ovo?
Da to je.
Dopuna: 19 Apr 2015 15:22
scimitar19 ::na tabli sto je prislonjena uz kontejner na farsi jeziku pise raketa S 200 i cini mi se da je kolega nelsa rekao da je taj kontejner u stvari transportni za s 200
Aha, moze biti.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 19 Apr 2015 20:35
|
offline
- djox
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 23 Nov 2010
- Poruke: 96551
|
Evo sta kazu iranci
Citat:5T53M type transport container, 5V28 type missile of S-200 SAM system
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 20 Apr 2015 00:25
|
offline
- thunder
- Zaslužni građanin
- Pridružio: 23 Dec 2011
- Poruke: 563
|
Napisano: 19 Apr 2015 21:29
djox ::
To jeste skladišno - transportni kontejner za raketu sistema S-200. Ali može biti i vrlo ekonomično rješenje za nove rakete. Zašto tražiti novo kad već imaš oprobano? Snižava cijenu. Kažem, može biti. Iranci fanatično istrajavaju na traženju jeftinih a funkcionalnih rješenja gdje god mogu.
Dopuna: 19 Apr 2015 21:45
Može li neko napraviti snap šot na 45:46....Zanima me ovaj šleper sa 2x3 tamno-zelena cilindrična kontejnera. Hvala!
https://youtu.be/NCzTpB5wSB4
Dopuna: 20 Apr 2015 0:25
Zanimljivo razmišljanje o SAM Bavar 373
The parade and the display of the Sayyad-4/Bavar missile made a few things very clear:
-The Bavar system is not based on some black market obtained S-300/HQ-9 technology
-Like the Sayyad-2 its design heritage and origins seem to the in US designs
-The Sayyad-2 was a Standard/Patriot(launcher) hybrid. The Bavar looks to me like a AIM-54(MIM-54)/Patriot hybrid for the following reasons:
-The AIM-54 is probably the highest technology missile interceptor available as basis for a SAM in Iran. It was already quite ahead of its time when it entered service. For the Sayyad-2 the lower technology standard missile was used as basis, the AIM-54 would be the ideal choice for the Bavar.
-Unlike S-300 family missiles, the Bavar as shown during the parade has no TVC system but just a Patriot like aerodynamic control surface steering. It's design is closer to the AIM-54/PAC-3 concept and should provide enough agility when compared to the S-300.
-There are three points which would make such a AIM-54 based missile very effective and comparable to the S-300:
-Creating a high power phased array PESA illumination system like that of the S-300 Fap-lid/Tombstone is a huge technological task, especially at extended ranges 105km+. Going this path would be a huge risk factor.
So what we have seen so far for the Bavar is what appears like a more powerful Hafez AESA engagement radar. This AESA system would not be powerful enough to illuminate the target for the TVM/SAGG/SARH seeker of a S-300/Patriot like missile, but it can track the target at 200km+ ranges and communicate with the interceptor and give it mid-course updates.
-The shown Bavar-373 engement radar should be able to track fighter size targets at 200km and if cued by a larger search radar, especially those in VHF band, it should be able to pick-up stealthy targets at 100-200km.
-The TVM/SAGG/SARH guidance of the S-300/S-400/Patriot/Standard/HAWK missiles has some benefits and in the past the cost effectiveness was the most important. No active radar seeker is needed and with the TVM/SAGG system complicated engagement and radar comparison algorithms are not done by the flight computer of the missile but within the ground based FCS. Additionally the TVM/SAGG system has guidance redundancy which makes it very robust against jamming.
Therefore to use a active radar seeker SAM like a MIM-54 or what I think the Bavar/Sayyad-4 is, you need two things:
Huge advances in computing power for missile rated CPUs and advances in ARH seeker technology. In this way you can reach the same cost-effectiveness as with S-300/Patriot like TVM/SAGG SAM's. The savings of having a simpler FCS/SAM-Radar come on top.
Iran is a country that has the gift of having AIM-54's as starting point which China for example had not. This path would be the least risky with the biggest grow potential and I'm quite sure this is what the Bavar-373 employs.
-The potential weak point of not having a TVC system can be almost eliminated by using a ARH SAM for following reason:
Like the AIM-54, the missile is positioned above the target by the engagement radar and the dives while activating its active radar seeker. This engagement trajectory is in this extreme form not possible by a TVM/SAGG guided SAM as the upper part of the target is not sufficiently illuminated by a ground based radar. So the end-game agility requirements differ here: A AIM-54 like SAM can greatly increase its speed by diving into the target and by doing so, greatly increase its agility and effectiveness of aerodynamic control surfaces to such a point that the airframe G-load restrictions becomes the limiting parameter and makes a additional TVC system like in the S-300 useless. Hence the TVC-less Bavar/Sayyad-4 could have the same end-game kill probability as the S-300/S-400 by being basically a MIM-54. The savings of not employing a TVC system can then compensate the higher costs of an ARH seeker and the weight savings can compensate the higher drag of the Sayyad-4 fins. TVC makes sense of a missile which has to intercept ballistic missiles primarily but if the Sayyad-4 is mainly used against aircrafts (up to SR-71/Mig-25) then there could be no penalty at all by using aerodynamic control surfaces (even benefits).
-Benefits of a diving trajectory ARH seeker SAM is obviously that the much higher RCS top area of the target aircraft can be engaged. This coupled with the huge advances in computing power could easily compensate the benefits a TVM/SAGG system has via its seeker/engagement radar redundancy. Hence the anti-stealth capabilities of the Bavar-373 could be way higher than that of the S-300 while the S-300 would have the upper hand in anti-ballistic missile role with its TVC equipped missiles.
-I expect a square launcher for the Sayyad-4 not a round S-300 like. Should be similar to the advanced Taiwanese SAMs and as apparently no S-300 technology is involved in the Bavar, I also don’t expect to see a cold-launch system for it. But could be that the effort was taken on basis of the TOR-M1 cold launch technology.
-The development of the Sayyad-4 by reverse engineering the AIM-54 technology is impressive and could have led to the development of the Fakkur-90 AAM.
-Concentrating on a tracking-only AESA engagement radar could have become possible by recent technology break troughs. Those T/R modules don’t have to be very powerful ones for such a system and available in the open market. The Hafez radar and others would greatly benefit from this development, basically sharing the development costs and all using the same T/R modules.
-Its quite large. I would estimate the booster is roughly 70% of the Fateh-110/Zelzal-2 booster. The booster should be bigger than the HQ-9 booster and close to the S-300 booster giving it indeed a long range cabaility of 100-200km+. The missile booster technology should not be a technological bottle-neck for Iran, with the top diving/non proportional guidance system even a single-pulse booster without sustainer (as used and demonstrated by Irans soild fuel ballistic missiles) could become an option
- The biggest challenge in by hypothesis would be to reverse engineer and further develop the AIM-54 technology. Namely the active radar seeker. One thing should be clear: the blessing of having access to the AIM-54 is similar as having access to the S-300PMU/S-300PMU1 system and Iran would be stupid not to make use of this blessing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 30 Apr 2015 20:38
|
offline
- thunder
- Zaslužni građanin
- Pridružio: 23 Dec 2011
- Poruke: 563
|
Napisano: 27 Apr 2015 22:23
mirbat ::
Hvala za snap šot. Moguće da su ovo skladišni kontejneri za Salamceh rakete. Nalaze se u koloni PVO sistema Mersad (I-Hawk).
Nema pouzdanih info o tome koji će sistem dobiti. Iz intervjua iranskog mod-a datog RT pred odlazak u Moskvu (dugačak intervju-video), pominje zahtjev za isporukom sistema koji su proizvedeni po iranskim specifikacijama, za koji su njihovi ljudi bili na obuci u Rusiji.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 30 Apr 2015 20:38
|
offline
- thunder
- Zaslužni građanin
- Pridružio: 23 Dec 2011
- Poruke: 563
|
Izgleda da je završeno testiranje PVO sistema Bavar 373 i da je u produkcijskoj fazi, dok o tome piše britanski Defence Security global news. Ovo je prvi puta da jedan zapadni portal piše o tom sistemu kao o gotovoj stvari. Na onoj izložbi od prije par mjeseci gdje su prikazani pojedini dijelovi sistema je bio pano sa karakteristikama Bavar 373 vs. S-300PMU-2, ali na perzijskom pismu. Izgleda da je u okviru nedavnog "Army day" sistem prikazan predsjedniku Irana i da je prezentacija bila zatvorenog tipa. Tako pišu forumi....
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2015_global_d.....ystem.html
Evo fotki sa prezentacije dijelova sistema Bavar 373 iz augusta 2014. Na slici iza OE sistema pored bijele rakete, navodno, se nalazi taj pano sa uporednim karakteristikama Bavar 373 - S-300PMU2.
Evo i 2 videa sa te prezentacije. Zanimljivo je da su tada objavili kako je postao operativan i protiv-raketni sistem (kako su ga oni nazvali) Real Iron Dome. Tu vijest su ponovili u decembru 2014., ali nisu postavili ni jednu fotku, tako da je nejasno o čemu se radi.
https://youtu.be/rtjjt8pKlmg
https://youtu.be/2kWa97oWPCk
Video u HD rezolociji sa vojne parade prije 10-tak dana koji se odnosi na Bavar "long range air defence and ABM project"
https://youtu.be/jd_IEuvY570
Zanimljiva fotka sa testiranja radara nepoznate rakete. Na forumskim raspravama vezuju je za sistem Bavar, ali se ne može pouzdano znati. Nikakve tehničke ili bilo kakve druge karakteristike nisu objavljene.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
