Jermenija vs Azerbejdzan sukobi oko Nagorno-Karabaha

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Polemarchoi ::Ne vidim nadmoćnost Azerbejdžana u meri koja je potrebna napadaču. Čini mi se da Jermeni lepo pazare sredstva odvraćanja. Takođe ne zaboravite da je Jermenski PVO u integrisanom sistemu sa Rusima, tako da se ne bih kladio u nadmoćnost Azera na ovom polju već suprotno.
Није спорно да уколико Јерменија не застрани у односу на Русе,било шта слично није уопште за разматрање.Не сећам се баш али чини ми се да је она база у Јерменији РУСКА.Те самим тим и све везано за њу.А ваљда су и у ОДКБ-у.

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So Armenian air defence is connected to CSTO air defence network, I'm guessing this is primarily based on sharing airspace picture between member states. What else? Is Russia going to launch S-400 missiles from Moscow into Azerbaijan? How does it affect the combat capabilities of Armenian air defence?

Russian base in Armenia, located on the border with Turkey, has a division of S-300V and Buk-M1-2. A squadron of Mig-29. The land equipment consists of 2 battalions of T-72s etc. A truly game changing force.

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Napisano: 18 Avg 2018 20:14

Qarasu ::Napisano: 18 Aug 2018 19:37

pein ::Qarasu why not exchange of territory Azeris give Armebians Nachivan and they give you N. Karabakh and problem solved???

Both Nakhchivan and Karabakh are internationally recognized territories of Azerbaijan.

Dopuna: 18 Aug 2018 19:46

Polemarchoi ::Ne vidim nadmoćnost Azerbejdžana u meri koja je potrebna napadaču. Čini mi se da Jermeni lepo pazare sredstva odvraćanja. Takođe ne zaboravite da je Jermenski PVO u integrisanom sistemu sa Rusima, tako da se ne bih kladio u nadmoćnost Azera na ovom polju već suprotno.

Maybe you can elaborate? Why?

How does that work exactly?

Elaborate what... Read it is ratified agreement between both sides. [Link mogu videti samo ulogovani korisnici]

Russian military base with all its effectives and russian troops are under intagrated commad. My firm belief is that all Aremnian anti aircraft systems are maintained and modernised under russian supervision and with other branches they form integrated network more capable then Azerbejan air force and air defence force. Its not about tehnical date read on wiki as you are trying to present in your posts... PMU 2 has better range then PS version of S300, Barak etc.

And contrary to your statements, systems like s-300,Tor, Buk m2, Iskander and others are not obsolete, especially in good hands, and they are deterrent for much bigger potential aggressor then Azerbaijan. Keep in mind that aggressor need to outnumber defending force 5 to 1.

Dopuna: 18 Avg 2018 20:15

Qarasu ::So Armenian air defence is connected to CSTO air defence network, I'm guessing this is primarily based on sharing airspace picture between member states. What else? Is Russia going to launch S-400 missiles from Moscow into Azerbaijan? How does it affect the combat capabilities of Armenian air defence?

Russian base in Armenia, located on the border with Turkey, has a division of S-300V and Buk-M1-2. A squadron of Mig-29. The land equipment consists of 2 battalions of T-72s etc. A truly game changing force.

It is my dear azeri friend.

Dopuna: 18 Avg 2018 20:18

MB120mm ::Polemarchoi ::Ne vidim nadmoćnost Azerbejdžana u meri koja je potrebna napadaču. Čini mi se da Jermeni lepo pazare sredstva odvraćanja. Takođe ne zaboravite da je Jermenski PVO u integrisanom sistemu sa Rusima, tako da se ne bih kladio u nadmoćnost Azera na ovom polju već suprotno.
Није спорно да уколико Јерменија не застрани у односу на Русе,било шта слично није уопште за разматрање.Не сећам се баш али чини ми се да је она база у Јерменији РУСКА.Те самим тим и све везано за њу.А ваљда су и у ОДКБ-у.

Ne verujem da ima prostora za previranja i zastranjivanja ni na Jermenskoj ni Azerskoj strani. Kavkaz je ruska interesna zona i današnja Rusija ni po cenu izlaska na granicu sa Turskom i Iranom to neće dopustiti. U prilog tome Grzuija i nedavni sporazum o Kaspisjkom basenu koji Rusija ne bi politički izgurala pre 10 godina.

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Napisano: 18 Aug 2018 20:30

From what I know, in practice it just translates into CSTO members sharing the airspace picture. Turkey's air defence are connected to Nato air defence network, what does it mean for the combat capabilities of Turkish air defence? Why is Turkey buying S-400, which will not even be connected to the Nato air defence network? It's not that simple.

And Azerbaijan's Air Force and Air Defence are not integrated within a single network? S-300, Barak, Buk etc, Green Pine works as a part of one single network. In fact you can imagine how Azerbaijan has managed to fuse Russian and Israeli systems into one network.

S-300PS are obsolote by modern standards (although it does add a significant capability to Armenian air defence), there is no Buk M2 or Tor in Armenia (and TOR is a SHORAD system), I never said Iskander were obsolote.

What about Azerbaijan's ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, air defence systems? What kind of opponents are they meant against? Azerbaijan is not Georgia (I don't mean to belittle Georgia, but I often see a direct or indirect parallel drawn by other people).

Dopuna: 18 Aug 2018 20:44

Polemarchoi ::It is my dear azeri friend.

Yet 2 divisions of S-300PMU2, at least 4 divisions of Buk-MB (might be more, deliveries were continuing as late as 2017), unknown number of Barak LR & Barak ER, Green Pine radars are not a serious force?

Anyway, it's somehow pointless to even talk about the Russian military base if Russia were actually to participate on side of Armenia in a potential war. That would be something beyond the Russian base in Armenia.

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Wait until you see Armenia going to NATO, then you will have freedom of action. Perhaps NATO ordered Turkey to protect Armenia.
A joke, but very bad.

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Qarasu well both Abkhazia and S. Ossetia were recognized as parts of Georgia and where they are now from my view its better option to settle things politically than military because neither you or Armenians cant win that easily. Because in N. Karabakh they have strong force solidly armed + Armenian state behind them luckily Russaa wont allow conflict.

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So-called Nagorno Karabakh army IS Armenian Army and state. Do you really think Azerbaijan is facing so-called Karabakh army, that is only "backed" by Armenia? Armenian military formations in Karabakh are those of Armenia proper. "Karabakh army" is just an image. Most of the soldiers serving in Karabakh are from Armenia proper.

You occasionally hear about ethnic Yazidi soldiers (an ethnic minority in Armenia) killed in Karabakh. There are no Yazidis in Karabakh, all of them live in Armenia proper. They hold funerals for Yazidi soldiers at their hometowns in...Armenia. Do you see where I'm getting at?

Russia is the reason Armenia even exists to be honest. Imagine there is no Russian presence in Armenia, Armenia is not a part of CSTO. How could have they defended themselves? Today Azerbaijan attacking Armenia proper would result in involvement of CSTO = Russia. If there were no Russia, forget about even fighting in Karabakh, Armenia itself could have been easily invaded from other directions, including Nakhchivan. There is no way Armenia could/can surive without Russia.

With the way things are now, Armenian army are only concerned with defending Karabakh. Because according to the agreements they have with CSTO, any attack into Armenian proper (this does not include Karabakh, which is a territory of Azerbaijan as recognized by all other CSTO members) = an attack against CSTO. Like how NATO works = an attack on a member state is an attack on all of NATO.

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I think you can easily get them, but. Armenia in no way is prosperous. In 20-25 years, several thousand hungry Armenians from Karabah, will come to Baku with paper to change their independence for any job position in your oil industry. Give them shovels ...
Probably it will be at the same time all the rest of the inhabitants of this wolf-cheeky territory.
Why risk if in 90s a some Korean motherfucker puts 5kt in Elbrus, without the Russians knowing it.
Why risk in every way the prosperous Azerbaijan.

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Polemarchoi ::Its not about tehnical date read on wiki as you are trying to present in your posts... PMU 2 has better range then PS version of S300, Barak etc.

By the way the reason I mentioned the range of Armenian S-300 was to point out how much of area they cover. The S-300 division placed in south does cover Karabakh, but not beyond it. Yet Azerbaijani aircraft don’t need to enter Karabakh to use SOM and other long-range missiles. And that is assuming the S-300PS is 100% effective at max range.

Range is not the most important aspect of an air defence systems at all if you ask me, it’s the overall technological capability.

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