zgembo ::
Aj da odgovorim sto prostije: Mislim da smo se oko toga ganjali ne nekoj tridesetoj stranici posta...daj boze...i da rakete imaju domet 500 km s cime ce nisaniti sa postojecim radarima, ako je i istina da je razvijena raketa devedesetih kad radara za mig 29 nije bilo sa takvim karakteristikama ni izbliza u to doba...da ne nabrajam modele itd vec si ih spomenuo...
Pa valjda su i radari napredovali. Ne mislis valjda su preko noci od N019 dosli do AESA radara za MiG-29
mozda ovo nekako uvjeri one koji misle da se neko bojao da udje u dog fight sa Mig 29, vec je vezano za procedure presretanja...govorilo se o tome ali izgleda da s vremene na vrijeme opet moramo na novo:
@Janes def:
Within minutes, the Dutch had achieved their first air-to-air victory since World War II, shooting down a Serbian MiG-29.
The engagement also marked the combat debut for the F-16AM, the most advanced F-16 in operational service.
In an interview with Jane's Defence Weekly, Lt Col Jon Abma, RNLAF, commanding officer of the Belgian-Netherlands Deployed Air Task Force (DATF) described the events that happened during the first moments of Operation Allied Force.
"At 19.30hr local time four F-16AMs took off from here for a fighter escort mission to protect one of the first NATO strike packages. After an in-flight refuelling over the Adriatic Sea, the flight crossed over Albania into Serbia. Upon entering Serbian airspace, they were informed by AWACS that three MiG-29 aircraft had taken off from an air base near Belgrade," Col Abma said.
That base is understood to have been Batajnica, home of the Yugoslav Air Force's only MiG-29 unit, the 127th Fighter Aviation Squadron 'Knights'. Col Abma said: "The four F-16AMs headed out toward the threat, working to detect the MiGs on their own radars. Subsequently, one of the MiGs was picked up by all four F-16s. When within range, our flight leader fired one AMRAAM against the MiG. It was an instant hit, after a flight of 30 seconds."
The AMRAAM, credited with a speed of over 4,000km/h,would be capable of covering a distance of more than 33km in 30 seconds. According to RNLAF personnel at Amendola, the head-on missile intercept took place 18km from the lead F-16.
"The pilot involved visually saw a fiery explosion. At the same time, the AWACS recorded that the MiG disappeared from the scope," Col Abma said. "We have never seen the other MiG-29s, but around the same time two US F-15s shot down two of those aircraft."
Col Abma said that the rules of engagement (ROEs) for air-to-air engagements require that the target has been tracked by AWACS throughout its flight, and that four other parameters also must be met. Other RNLAF officers said that among those are a positive IFF identification and an approval from the mission commander.
Flying in the air defence role, the F-16AMs at Amendola each carried four AMRAAMs, two external fuel tanks and a Northrop Grumman ALQ-131 ECM pod. In addition four of the eight aircraft also carried two Raytheon AGM-65G Maverick air-to-ground missiles each.
"This is so that they can react instantly when a ground target needs to be attacked urgently," said Col Abma, adding that this 'swing role' capability was much appreciated by NATO's Combined Air Operations Center (CAOC) in Vicenza, Italy, which plans and leads the air campaign.
Licno mislim da bi za efikasnu odbranu vazdusnog prostora Srbije bilo potrebno 40 moernih lovaca iz familije MiG-29.Svi ovi avioni morali bi u svakom trenutku biti u vrhunskom tehnickom stanju borbene gotovosti. Raketama velikog dometa R-77 i srednjeg R-27, nove generacije, moglo bi da se efikasno dejstvuje na svim daljinama teritorije Srbije ukoliko bi lovacke grupe bile efikasno rasporedjene po aerodromima (kojih bi trebalo biti vise) i improvizovanim poletno-sletnim stazama (autoputevima i putevima) u toku eventualnog rata. Odgovor na eventualni napad protivnika uvek bi trebalo sprovoditi sa grupama od vise aviona MiG-29 , vec prema brojnosti neprijateljskih snaga. U ovakvim uslovima neprijatelj bi cesto dolazio u situaciju da mora da ulazi u blisku vazdusnu borbu gde je superioronost lovca MiG-29 nedostizna. U tim okolnostima taktika dejstva je razlicita, moze se potpuno iskljuciti radar, ukljuciti Opticko-laserski napadni sistem i nisan na kacigi pilota i uz R-73EM neprijatelju bi bilo vrlo "gusto" ma koje snage on bio.. Naravno sistem PVO treba dobro uvezbati za sinhronizovano dejstvo sa jedinicama lovacke aviojacije i u tom slucaju Srbija kao neutralna zemlja, nikada agresorska, vec koja se samo brani, bila bi u stanju da drzi prevlast u svom vazdushnom prostoru..
Dopuna: 25 Okt 2009 17:54
Citat:@Janes def:
Within minutes, the Dutch had achieved their first air-to-air victory since World War II, shooting down a Serbian MiG-29.
The engagement also marked the combat debut for the F-16AM, the most advanced F-16 in operational service.
In an interview with Jane's Defence Weekly, Lt Col Jon Abma, RNLAF, commanding officer of the Belgian-Netherlands Deployed Air Task Force (DATF) described the events that happened during the first moments of Operation Allied Force.
"At 19.30hr local time four F-16AMs took off from here for a fighter escort mission to protect one of the first NATO strike packages. After an in-flight refuelling over the Adriatic Sea, the flight crossed over Albania into Serbia. Upon entering Serbian airspace, they were informed by AWACS that three MiG-29 aircraft had taken off from an air base near Belgrade," Col Abma said.
That base is understood to have been Batajnica, home of the Yugoslav Air Force's only MiG-29 unit, the 127th Fighter Aviation Squadron 'Knights'. Col Abma said: "The four F-16AMs headed out toward the threat, working to detect the MiGs on their own radars. Subsequently, one of the MiGs was picked up by all four F-16s. When within range, our flight leader fired one AMRAAM against the MiG. It was an instant hit, after a flight of 30 seconds."
The AMRAAM, credited with a speed of over 4,000km/h,would be capable of covering a distance of more than 33km in 30 seconds. According to RNLAF personnel at Amendola, the head-on missile intercept took place 18km from the lead F-16.
"The pilot involved visually saw a fiery explosion. At the same time, the AWACS recorded that the MiG disappeared from the scope," Col Abma said. "We have never seen the other MiG-29s, but around the same time two US F-15s shot down two of those aircraft."
Col Abma said that the rules of engagement (ROEs) for air-to-air engagements require that the target has been tracked by AWACS throughout its flight, and that four other parameters also must be met. Other RNLAF officers said that among those are a positive IFF identification and an approval from the mission commander.
Flying in the air defence role, the F-16AMs at Amendola each carried four AMRAAMs, two external fuel tanks and a Northrop Grumman ALQ-131 ECM pod. In addition four of the eight aircraft also carried two Raytheon AGM-65G Maverick air-to-ground missiles each.
"This is so that they can react instantly when a ground target needs to be attacked urgently," said Col Abma, adding that this 'swing role' capability was much appreciated by NATO's Combined Air Operations Center (CAOC) in Vicenza, Italy, which plans and leads the air campaign.
... Pricaj Srpski da te ceo svet razume, ili bar prevedi ono sto mislis da je vazno jer gomila clanova ovde na forumu ne zna engleski.
Citat:The four F-16AMs headed out toward the threat, working to detect the MiGs on their own radars. Subsequently, one of the MiGs was picked up by all four F-16s. When within range, our flight leader fired one AMRAAM against the MiG. It was an instant hit, after a flight of 30 seconds.
Iljo Arizanov na samom pocetku bombardovanja, dok josh nije znao da je napad avijacije NATO poceo, pratio je jedan neprijateljski avion ka granici sa Makedonijom trudivsi se da ga sustigne i izvede zahvat cilja. Iz potpuno drugog pravca bio je pogodjen prvom raketom AMRAAM koja je bila ispaljena na njega, izgubio je kontrolu nad avionom i izbacio se iz aviona. Ipak cetiri aviona F-16 su ga imala u zahvatu a kako vidim samo je vodja ispalio jednu raketu. Bilo ih je mnogo, on je bio sam pa su mogli da cekaju sta ce raketa da uradi i da i dalje napadaju i efikasno ga uniste posto je sam samcijat bio vrlo lagan cilj..
Eh sta sve necemo cuti od ovih Holandjana. Ameri na F-15 (znatno opasnijoj ptici) lansiraju cetiri AIM-120 na nas MiG-29 a Holandjani ispale samo jednu raketu
Citat:Eh sta sve necemo cuti od ovih Holandjana. Ameri na F-15 (znatno opasnijoj ptici) lansiraju cetiri AIM-120 na nas MiG-29 a Holandjani ispale samo jednu raketu Mr. Green
Koje foliranje.
Mean_Machine, holandjani pokusavaju medijski da postanu ratnici, pa ispadaju smeshni... Daleko su oni od ratnika, pre lice na copor kukavica koji je jak samo kada je copor. Ova akcija mozda se moze analizirati. Iljo Arizanov bio je u vazduhu i nije josh znao da je napad NATO avijacije otpoceo. Svojim radrom primetio je cilj na velikoj visini u nasem vazdusnom prostoru kako leti ka granici sa Makedonijom. Po ponasanju trajektorije cilja na radaru, kako je kasnije pricao zakljucio je da se radi o avionu F-117A. Ovaj avion bio je verovatno mamac. Arizanov mu se priblizio ali ne dovoljno da moze da lansira R-27, cilj je vec presao granicu i pilot je odlucio da odustane od zahvata cilja. Iz totalno suprotnog pravca ka njegovom MiGu hitala su cetiri F-16 navodjena od strane AWACS-a sa iskljucenim radarima. Navodjeni su do ulaska u domet njihovih AMRAAM raketa. Cim su usli u rejon dejstva sto je daleko veci domet od dejstva naoruzanja MiG-29 svi lovci (njih cetiri) ukljucili su radare i izvrsili zahvat cilja, i svi su istovremeno imali "zakljucan"cilj. Vodja je odmah ispalio raketu a Arizanov je imao samo 30 sekundi da reaguje. Otprilike u tom kratkom vremenu Arizanov je dobio indikaciju o ozracenosti iz vise pravaca (posto je borbena grupa od cetiri F-16 koja ga je napala verovatno zauzela borbeni poredak da zbuni protivnickog pilota). Bio je na velikoj visini, na oko 4000 metara i nije imao vremena da se otarasi radarske ozracenosti, verovatno je preuzeo neki manevar ali nije mogao imati nikakvu predstavu iz kog pravca i koliko raketa ga gadja... U tom vrlo kratkom vremenu kao vrlo lagan, pojedinacni, cilj na velikoj visini zahvacen iz vise uglova, ne znajuci sta ga je snaslo ipak je preuzeo manevar ali ni hipoteticki nije imao nikakvih sansi.. To je kao kada si sam i iz zasede, kukavicki, okruzi te grupa huligana sa duugackim motkama, jedna vec hita ka tebi a ti ne znash iz kog pravca...
Citat:Koje foliranje.
Pilot je pogodjen prvom raketom, cim je video da je avion neupravljiv povukao je rucicu za izbacivanje pilota iz aviona. Da li je ka njemu ispaljena samo jedna raketa (posto ga je prva pogorila), ili vise njih ostaje misterija. Moze se lako konstruisati prica za medije, a holandjani kao i svi zapadnjaci to posebno vole... foliranti..
ApsolutniPocetnik napisao si da je Pericu radio spo a on je u emisiji na rts-u rekao da je tad isao sa pokvarenim radarom i spo sistemom dok je Radovaljevic imao ispravan samo spo.Po izjavi pilota F-15 koji ih je oborio se navodi da ih je on imao vizuelni kontakt sa njima u trenutku kada su pogodjeni.Pitanje je dali mu je bio ispravan radar ili ne?
Citat:ApsolutniPocetnik napisao si da je Pericu radio spo a on je u emisiji na rts-u rekao da je tad isao sa pokvarenim radarom i spo sistemom dok je Radovaljevic imao ispravan samo spo.Po izjavi pilota F-15 koji ih je oborio se navodi da ih je on imao vizuelni kontakt sa njima u trenutku kada su pogodjeni.Pitanje je dali mu je bio ispravan radar ili ne?
... U tom slucaju josh gore... to znaci da radar ni na jednom nije radio.. Pilot F-15 ne verujem da je imao vizuelni kontakt, po odlicnom vremenu on moze biti u nizim slojevima atmosfere 10tak kilometara a tada bi ga Peric vec uhvatio Opticko-laserskim napadnim sistemom, cak mogao da dejstvuje sa R-73..
U trenutku obaranja Peric, kako kaze, nije imao vizuelni kontakt sa neprijateljem, samo je video tragove raketa pa je krenuo u manevar izbegavanja... nije mogao da izvrsi protivmanevar a upotreba Sidewindera aim-9 koja je daleko losija raketa od stare R-3 , kamo li R-60 a pogotovo od R-73. Upotreba aim-9 znacila bi blisku vazdusnu borbu u koju je Peric i zeleo da udje i zbog cega je mnogo zalio.. Oboreni su raketama AIM-120.. Protivnicki piloti ih nikako nisu mogli videti posto nisu ni oni njh..
