Virtuelni dogfight

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Virtuelni dogfight

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Skywhaler ::HMS/D may be at early stage of use with Qatari Rafale but no photos have emerged to support this.

Elbitov Targo-2




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Falcon Strike 2015 tajlandski JAS-39C protiv kineskih Su-27
Citat:
-The JAS-39 performance was at its worst inside the within visual range (WVR) envelope. Over a two-day period, PLAAF pilots shot down 25 Gripens at a loss of only one Su-27. The Su-27 has an advantage over the performance of the JAS-39 due to its more powerful Salyut AL-31F engines, and the Swedish aircraft was handicapped in that it was equipped with the older-generation AIM-9L Sidewinder instead of the current-generation Diehl IRIS-T missile.

-Once the exercise transitioned to beyond visual range (BVR) combat, the superiority of the JAS-39 became readily apparent. The Swedish aircraft shot down 41 Su-27s over a period of four days with a loss of only nine JAS-39s.

-The Su-27s flown by the PLAAF were operating with a modified version of the NIIP N001 radar that could fire the Vympel RVV-AE active-homing air-to-air missile (AAM). But its effective detection range was only 120km in comparison with the JAS-39’s Ericsson PS-05/A at 160km. The Gripen’s Raytheon AIM-120 AAM also outranged the RVV-AE at 80km versus only 50 km for the Russian missile.

-Li stated that the JAS-39C/D’s much smaller radar cross-section (RCS) at 1.5-2.0 m2 was a major factor, as the much larger Su-27 is easier to detect at 12 sq miles. The JAS-39 can also ripple-fire up to four AIM-120s simultaneously but the Su-27 can fire only one RVV-AE at a time.

-Gripen achieved 88 percent of its kills at 19 miles or greater, while the Su-27 had just 14 percent of its kills at this range. The RTAF also had 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles compared with zero long-distance kills by the Su-27.

In subsequent exercises the PLAAF fared better by sending the Chengdu J-10A - and then in 2019 the J-10C - in place of the Su-27. Li pointed out that the J-10C was more of a match for the JAS-39C/D in that “its active array radar significantly improves detection distance and multi-target attack capability, the DSI (divertless) air intake of the J-10C reduces the radar intercept area while the PL-15 missile increases the range, making it an over-the-horizon platform.”


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/20.....rcise-rtaf



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Naravno da ti stari Su-27 i njegovi derivati, a koji su na teh. nivou iz '80 i '90 imaju ogroman deficit u odnosu na nove generacije lovaca.

Kina strogo kontrolise sve izjave...

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На вежби 2015. су учествовали кинески Су-27СК и УБК, дакле авиони са технологијом 70-тих и 80-тих година. И они сигурно немају РВВ-АЕ.

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Razmišljam o ovome već nekoliko godina i, suprotno običaju, samo bih predložio temu i pročitao tuđa mišljenja: poređenje našeg RV-a opremljenog "Orlom" i "Galebom" sa jedne strane, i našeg RV-a opremljenog "Jakom 130" sa druge.

Striktni scenario ne postoji, on može polaziti od akcenta na uloge predviđene za "Orla" i "Galeba", biti "igra aduta", presek postojećeg stanja ili poređenje perspektivnosti i realističnosti daljeg razvoja tipova, "what if" suprotstavljanje vazduhoplovstava gde su i "Orao" i "Jak" u naponu svoje snage... ili nečeg sasvim nevezanog, šta god ti palo na pamet.

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Dopunjena poruka. Listaj na dole. Very Happy

Napisano: 27 Jul 2020 10:10

Bez obzira sto je igra DCS. Kako je to protiv nekadasnjeg pilota Rafale M. Cisto kao neka zanimljivost za razbibrigu.




Drugi video sa istim pilotom dok upravlja sa Mirage 2000. Lepo je videti posle u taktickom pregledu koliko je cak u simulaciji njegova tehnika bolja nego od nekog pa reklo bi se nastrebanog gejmera.

Razgovor posle najbolji deo.



Dopuna: 06 Avg 2020 21:59

Treci deo. Kao sto rekoh postavljam jer se moze cuti po nesto od pravog pilota Rafale M.



Dopuna: 12 Avg 2020 16:33

Koga zanima dalji razvoj DCS. Takodje o novoj igri za laksi ulazak u taj svet.
Osvrt na to da vise ne vode racuna o paritetu. Sto se vidi prema inferiornosti ruskih aviona prvenstveno u BVR borbi. Moze se naci na istom kanalu kad par F-15 pomlati 4 Su-27.

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Kompjuter(AI) pobedio pilota 5:0 u simuliranoj bliskoj borbi. Kaze da AI koristi ogranicenja nametnuta pilotima i ima brze vreme reakcije.

Citat:The AI program, named “Falcon”, defeated a senior fighter pilot and F-16 Weapons Instructor Course graduate, call sign “Banger”, in a series of nearly flawless performances that took advantage of the computer program’s ability to fly more precisely and aggressively. The F-16 pilot competing against the AI decided not to provide his identity for “operational security reasons”, says DARPA.

“He’s an experienced operational fighter pilot with more than 2,000 flight hours in the F-16, including combat time,” says the research agency. The Falcon AI program was developed by defence contractor Heron Systems.

Prior to facing off against a human opponent, over the course of 18 and 19 August, Heron Systems’ Falcon dispatched AI programs from seven other teams, including Aurora Flight Sciences, EpiSys Science, Georgia Tech Research Institute, Lockheed Martin, Perspecta Labs, PhysicsAI and SoarTech. Simulated F-16s, controlled by various AI programs, flew against each other in a number of different aerial combat scenarios.

Ultimately, the Falcon AI program made short work of its human opponent, getting its gun sight on the adversary often within the first few times the aircraft turned against each other. Aircraft hits were called when a 914m (3,000ft) laser beam, representing gun range, protruding from the nose of a virtual jet crossed over another jet’s fuselage.

The AI program’s ability to fly precisely gave it the ability to disregard flight safety rules on which human USAF pilots are trained. That ultimately gave it an advantage in simulated combat, says DARPA program manager USAF Colonel Dan “Animal” Javorsek.

“We do not allow pilots to pass within 500ft of each other. That bubble and a restriction to take no greater than 135-degree gunshots, they were violating routinely,” he says. “The agents were capitalizing on precisely those limitations, which is in all honesty exactly what we want. The point of this exploration of what AI can do is that it can tell us and help us explore the tactics space that we just don’t accept from a risk perspective.”

The AI program not only flew more precisely, but reacted quicker, says F-16 pilot Banger.

“I may not be comfortable putting my aircraft in a position where I might run into something else – or take that high-aspect gunshot is a better way to say that. The AI would exploit that,” he says. “It is able to have a very fine precision control, with perfect-state information between the two aircraft. It’s able to make adjustments on a nanosecond level.”

For a human to go through the same tactical OODA loop (observe, orient, decide, act), it takes more time, says Banger.

“I had to observe that transition, reorient my thoughts and my game plan, make a decision, which translates into moving motor controls into that final pack and then applying the stick pressure or the throttle change that is required to execute in relationship to that orientation that I observed in the beginning,” he says. “And the loop just continues to repeat.”

In fact, in other ways the AI-controlled simulated F-16 and the human-controlled simulated F-16 were equally matched. For instance, the simulation did not allow the AI-program to fly its F-16 with any greater g-force.

That aircraft are limited by the amount of g-force a pilot can handle is a misconception, says Javorsek.

“The airplanes are not limited by the pilot. I don’t know of anyone who’s flown a combat mission with a 9g F-16,” he says. “The airplane is limited by the weapons and stores that it carries, the tanks that it carries.”

If anything the biggest limitation associated with manned flight is the life-support equipment, says Javorsek.


https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/ai-wins-5-.....48.article

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Moram priznati da u poređenju sa taktičkim pogledom DCS koje sam skoro gledao ovo baš obećava. U ovoj borbi topovima kompjuter bi oprašio najbolje ljude.

Proćiće još dosta vremena do potpuno samostalnih automobila i kamoni, da ne govorimo o avionima.

Moja pretpostavka je da će se u početku pojavti programi koji će asistirati pravim pilotima u raznim situacijama.

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Само једна дигресија по овом занимљивом питању.Није упутно тестирати људе вс КОМПЈУТЕРИ. Најбољи шахисти Света престали су да играју турнире на којима би се као један од учесника појавио компјутер.Ствар стоји овако.Он је нахрањен подацима.Не заборавља,не умара се ,не плаши се.Потпуно је исто у било којој другој области.С том разликом што се то деси негде раније,негде касније.

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Овде је продор направљен не у самим компјутерима, већ у софтверу који је способан да самостално учи. Писао сам на теми о Alpha zero програму пре коју годину

У овом случају је програм учио у виртуелној учионици пре него што су га окушали против правог пилота и авиона.
Међутим мислим да је у овом случају приступ погрешан. Ракете могу да доживе потпуну револуцију са новим вођењем.

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