Poslao: 24 Nov 2014 19:07
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- dragon986
- Legendarni građanin
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Ne znam ratna iskustva to govore njegov Chobham oklop je odrađivao posao za razliku od abramsa a i Merkave. Ali dobro da ne širimo priču ovdenije tema za to.
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Poslao: 24 Nov 2014 19:11
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- jazbar
- Legendarni građanin
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dragon986 ::jazbar ::Svi "ratni" tenkovi su več bili probušeni i Abramsi i Merkave 4 i T-72 i T-80. Drugi još nisu učestvovali u ratu kao T-90, Chalenger, Leo 2, Leclerc... Svakako ima Merkava bolju zaštitu od Abramsa.
Chalenger je bio u oba zalivska rata, pogađan je ali nije nijedan uništen, makar nema zvaničnih potvrda ...I po meni ima najmoćniji oklop, čak i od Merkave
Chalenger je stradao od IED i prijateljske vatre. Prema tome i Leo 2 je "ratni" bilo je na njega pucano u Avganistanu. I na jewdan T-90 su pucali RPGom u Dagestanu (nije bio onesposobljen)... Da bi koliko toliko utvrdili kvalitetu oklopa treba barem biti pucano od drugog tenka topom sa PO projektilima ili fabričkim PORS na nekoliko tenkova.
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Poslao: 24 Nov 2014 19:14
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- dragon986
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Citat:The Challenger 2 had been used in peacekeeping missions and exercises before, but its first combat use came in March 2003 during the invasion of Iraq. 7th Armoured Brigade, part of 1st Armoured Division, was in action with 120 Challenger 2s around Basra. The tanks saw extensive use during the siege of Basra, providing fire support to the British forces and knocking out multiple enemy tanks, mainly T-54/55s. The tank's availability was excellent and the problems that were identified during the large Saif Sareea II exercise, which took place eighteen months earlier, were solved by the issuing of Urgent Operational Requirements for equipment such as sand filters.
During the 2003 invasion of Iraq the Challenger 2 tanks suffered no tank losses to enemy fire, although one was penetrated by an IED. This was, at the time, unprotected by Dorchester armour. The driver was injured. In one encounter within the urban area a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit directly by fourteen rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile.[15] The crew survived remaining safe within the tank until the tank was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later after repairs. One Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident.[16]
In August 2006 in al-Amarah, an RPG-29 damaged the underside of a Challenger 2, detonating ERA in the area of the driver's cabin. The driver lost part of his foot and two more of the crew were also injured but the driver was able to reverse 1.5 mi (2.4 km) to an aid post. The incident was not made public until May 2007; in response to accusations, the MoD said "We have never claimed that the Challenger 2 is impenetrable."[17][18] Since then, the ERA has been replaced with a Dorchester block and the steel underbelly lined with armour as part of the 'Streetfighter' upgrade as a direct response to this incident.
Two Challenger 2s have been damaged in combat, one of which was destroyed:
25 March 2003: A friendly fire ("blue-on-blue") incident in Basra in which one Challenger 2 of the Black Watch Battlegroup (2nd Royal Tank Regiment) mistakenly engaged another Challenger 2 of the Queen's Royal Lancers after detecting what was believed to be an enemy flanking manoeuvre on thermal equipment. The attacking tank's second HESH round hit the open commander's hatch lid of the QRL tank sending hot fragments into the turret, killing two crew members. The strike caused a fire that eventually led to an explosion of the stowed ammunition, destroying the tank. It remains the only Challenger 2 to be completely destroyed on operations.[19]
6 April 2007: in Basra, Iraq, a shaped charge from an IED penetrated the underside of a tank resulting in the driver losing three of his toes and causing minor injuries to another soldier.[20]Citat:
Evo o ovome pričamo on se sukobljavao i sa protivničkim tenkovima T-55 da i T-72 da ali ipak jeste za razliku od LEO2.
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Poslao: 24 Nov 2014 19:20
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- dragon986
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sremac983 ::Citat:Ne zaboravimo najbolji tenk drugog svetskog rata gledajući tehnološki je bio nemački Panzer makar po mom mišljenju ali šta vredi kada je T-34 i šermana bilo zajedno preko 100000.
Који је то панцер тенк На немачком језику panzer значи ТЕНК. Ако си мислио на Тигра 1 или пак 2 требао си тако да напишеш....или по швапски Pz. Kpfw VI Ausf A Tiger und Pz. Kpfw VI Ausf B Kosnigtiegr или за пантер тенк Pz. Kpfw V panther ausf D, A, G или пак они мали Pz. IV и шта ти ја знам....
Izvinite vaše preosvešenstvo Sremac naravno da sam mislio na Tigar II. Jel sad jasnije...moja greška
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Poslao: 24 Nov 2014 19:28
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- jazbar
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Pogodak Chalengera od RPG-29 več je referenca, nisam znao za taj incident. Pucanje po T-55 nije i kad bi oni uzvratili i pogodili...
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Poslao: 25 Nov 2014 00:07
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- mean_machine
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Meni su sva ta vozila gde se posada oslanja iskljucivo na periskope i kamere nezamisliva na nekom ozbiljnom ratistu. Doduse za sajmove i parade su extra.
Zato ja rekoh dizel crni orao sa podesivim oslanjanjem i imate vrlo nisku siluetu ali sa klasicnom kupolom i bez problema oko elevacije cevi (oslanjanje to resava).
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Poslao: 25 Nov 2014 00:56
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mean_machine ::Meni su sva ta vozila gde se posada oslanja iskljucivo na periskope i kamere nezamisliva na nekom ozbiljnom ratistu. Doduse za sajmove i parade su extra.
Zato ja rekoh dizel crni orao sa podesivim oslanjanjem i imate vrlo nisku siluetu ali sa klasicnom kupolom i bez problema oko elevacije cevi (oslanjanje to resava).
U tekstu koji sam postavi pise da su se odlucili za novi tenk zato sto Orao nije mnogo bolji od verzija T-90, dok oje novi za 25-30% bolji od T-90. Slicnu racunicu su izveli i Francuzi kada su resili da ide na Rafal koji je bio 25-30% bolji od Miraza 2000. Mora da kosta, to je svima jasno, a Rusi ako su pametni da razviju sada sto vise, posle opet moze neki Jelcin da dodje na vlast.
@lijenština
Bas interesantno.
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Poslao: 25 Nov 2014 07:42
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- jazbar
- Legendarni građanin
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mean_machine ::Meni su sva ta vozila gde se posada oslanja iskljucivo na periskope i kamere nezamisliva na nekom ozbiljnom ratistu. Doduse za sajmove i parade su extra.
Zato ja rekoh dizel crni orao sa podesivim oslanjanjem i imate vrlo nisku siluetu ali sa klasicnom kupolom i bez problema oko elevacije cevi (oslanjanje to resava).
Ruska prostranstva su specifično boljno polje. Verovatno pretpostavljaju da će se u budučnosti tenkovske bitke voditi na večim udaljenostima od prijašnjih. Pa ljudsko oko nije više uz sav razvoj optronike toliko nepogrešivo kao nekada. I ljudski životi su postali dragoceniji u međuvremenu. Takvoj doktrini će biti prilagođena i nova platforma Armata. E sad dali će imati tenk Armata bezposadnu turelu to ćemo tek da vidimo. I u dosadašnjim tenkovskim i borbama prosto osmatranje je vršeno samo od komandira i to samo određeno vreme. U većem delu borbenog učešča osmatralo se kroz periskope ili optroniku. Osmatranje kroz periskop i nije prednost u poređenju sa kamerom.
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