MIL MI-28 Havoc


MIL MI-28 Havoc

  • sve što ne treba
  • Pridružio: 27 Sep 2011
  • Poruke: 305


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  • Neimar i savremeni farmer.
  • Pridružio: 24 Nov 2010
  • Poruke: 9876
  • Gde živiš: U sremu voljenome...

сад ми нису јасни ови индуси када су рекли да нема довољно снажне моторе Мил Ми28, раѕлика у тежини између њега и апача је нешто мало преко 1000кг, а разлиак у снази мотора је 400кс, јер овај најновији апач има два коамда од по 2000кс, док мили ми има 2200кс два комада. сад ми никако није јасно како је могао да буде инфериорнији бар што се тиче погонске групе...

мало ми је и чудно да су их увели у ВВС ако имају толико инфериорнију електронику од апача....о овоме сам доста пута писао да су руси лако могли доћи до западне технологије, а већ сарађују са израелцима, који су водећи по том питању у свету.

све ми се и даље чини да су се индуси на овај начин одужили америма за пропаи тендер авиона.....

  • Pridružio: 30 Jul 2011
  • Poruke: 736

Pa sigurno je da svugde ima politike bar koliko i stvarnih potrazivanja. Ali ipak Apac ima razvijen portfolio, masovno se upotrebljuje i naravno u kombinaciji sa Helfajer raketom ima vec neku prednost. Rekao bih da je dokazanost u borbi + Helfajer + elektronika donela pobedu Apacu. Svaka cast, mislim da Rusi nemaju sta da se bune. Indijci za svoje pare kupuju sta njima treba. Rusi mozda placaju neku cenu svojom koncpepcijom tesko oklopljenog helikoptera i koristenja raketa koje nemaju "opali i zaboravi" karakteristike ali to je to, nekada izgubis nekada dobijes, tesko da je ovo totalni poraz ruske vojne tehnike. To je blago receno glupost. Rusi imaju rekordan broj narudzbi za izvoz ove godine tako da je neka propast tesko da ima ikakav dokaz. Mi-28 posebice ima obezbedjenu ulogu u ruskoj vojsci sa novim narudzbinama tako da ne treba puno brinuti za njega.

  • Pridružio: 23 Dec 2006
  • Poruke: 12379

Jel su Rusi napokon poceli sa uvodjenjem nove kacige sa ekranima? Video sam je na nekom video-u ali tada je jos bila u razvoju (2009god. cini mi se).

  • zixo  Male
  • Legendarni građanin
  • Pridružio: 27 Sep 2006
  • Poruke: 24628
  • Gde živiš: Beograd

22 Apača za 1,4 milijarde dolara? To je nevidjeno dranje a ti Indijci se bas razmecu. Pa sta je za Indiju 22 borbena helikoptera? Jedino ako ih nisu uzeli za specijalne jednice. Dakle za taj novac su mogli uzeti 44 Mi-28 ili jos vise Mi-35.

  • trol 
  • Počasni građanin
  • Pridružio: 21 Jul 2008
  • Poruke: 852
  • Gde živiš: bez bananska republika Srbija

Obrisao iz protesta

  • Pridružio: 23 Okt 2010
  • Poruke: 1291

The new does not mean the best - Denis Kovalenko,
October 26, 2011

Why Russian helicopter lost in the U.S. Air Force tender for India?

Despite the fact that the Mi-28N was created as a direct response to AH-64 Longbow Apache, and their characteristics are very similar, the Indians chose not to our helicopter. The reason for that are not only technological and political circumstances, but an unfortunate incident that occurred at the demonstration firings of the Russian helicopter.

The Mi-28N "Night Hunter" (according to NATO classification Havoc) began to develop back in the 80s of last century as our response to the American AH-64 Apache.

Both machines are made ​​for single-rotor with fixed landing gear and tail wheel, engines are located in nacelles on the sides of the fuselage. In the cab, two members of the crew, one above the other. "Hunter" has turned out nearly 3 tons heavier than the American, but that you have installed more powerful engines (two against two 2200 hp to 1930 hp), power-to-takeoff weight of his best, which means a higher constructive excellence and performance characteristics.

The maximum combat load of "Apache" - 771 lbs. In Mi-28, for comparison, 2,300 kg.

In almost a similar principle of arming both helicopters, consisting of guns, guided and unguided missiles, apparently very similar, and even hung similar. Guns are about the same: it is a single-moving automatic guns of 30 mm caliber, established under the "chin" turret on a helicopter with approximately equal angles of fire, working in sync with the gun.

But actually the difference between them is enormous. "Apache" is armed with a gun M230, designed specifically for him, it's relatively light weight of 54 kg gun with a rate of 625 rds / min., effective range against ground targets - 3,000 m, and its shortcomings - poor shooting accuracy, a relatively small initial velocity and insufficient capacity of shells. However, this is compensated by a large ammunition that when fired at short range is more important.

On the Mi mounted a modified tank gun 2A42, a long and successful combatant in the Russian infantry combat vehicles and helicopters Mi-24. It is twice as heavy as the American - 115 kg. Placing it on the outside of the turret is extremely difficult - the recoil from it swings the helicopter and decreases accuracy. Nevertheless, the designers with the problem successfully managed, and accuracy of fire at the "Hunter" is higher than that of "Apache." In addition, the ballistic data fitted to the Mi-28 gun is far ahead of the American guns. The American projectile weight - 0.24 kg, while the Mi twice as much - 0.4 kg. Minute volley "Apache", "weight" of 147 kg, with twice as many MI - 301 kg. Range of shooting at our helicopters more - 4,000 m. As above, and the initial velocity of the projectile: the "Apache" - 550 m / sec., The Mi nearly twice as many - 980 m / sec.

That provides exceptional accuracy and effectivness against armor. Russian helicopter with ease striking at a distance of 1500 m against 15 mm steel armor.

Another difference - "Apache" can only shoot in short bursts because of the possibility of overheating the gun. Mi-28 is no problem to release immediately all the ammunition.
The four external sites for both helicopters is suspended for 16 anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs). In MI it's supersonic missile precision "Ataka-V" with a radio command-guided with high noise immunity. Its range - 8 km. Possible to install anti-tank "Vikrh" laser-guided. Main armament of "Apache" - missile Hellfire AGM-114A laser-guided for the day. In poor visibility it is not feasible. But, as we are assured the Americans, arming the helicopter may be included missile AGM-114B with a radar-guidance. All anti-tank of the family "Hellfire", capable of engaging armored targets from a distance of 6-7 km, effective with the shooting at a moving small targets, fortifications, etc. .

But they have one drawback - they are subsonic. This greatly increases the time of the attack, especially at large distances, increasing the vulnerability of the helicopter. Thus, the distance of 4 km U.S. rocket flies for 15 seconds., While the "Vikrh" it takes only 9 seconds. Mi-28N - the only helicopter in the world, capable of both manual and in automatic mode to fly at an altitude of five meters from the rounding of the terrain, day and night, in adverse weather conditions. "Apache" can not.

To compare the characteristics of machines you can continue. But is there any sense because "calibrate" the two helicopters, which, in general, copy each other? Then why India chose this American helicopter and not Russian? In this regard, the expert community has a few opinions. The main one is that by law, Delhi should vary the purchase of arms and military equipment. That is to buy all the weapons in one hand he can not. Using this principle, the Indian market to actively make their way U.S. companies. Washington offers a full line of Delhi - from the military transport aircraft and attack helicopters to the fifth generation fighter F-35. We lost a tender to supply military transport aircraft. Instead, our IL-76 Delhi prefer to buy six U.S. C-130J-30 Super Hercules. For them to pay nearly $ 1 billion figure astronomical, considering that IL-76 would cost considerably less.

In the case of "Apache" Agency for Defense Cooperation and Security U.S. Department of Defense (Defense Security Cooperation Agency) in the early years of the Congress informed possibility of supply of engines, equipment, weapons, training tools, spare parts and logistics facilities for the 22 attack helicopters, AH-64D «Apache Longbow," participating in the tender of the Ministry of Defence of India. This decision, the Americans have seriously undermined the position of the Mi-28N. Also - and this is perhaps the most important condition - the "Apache" is a long time series. He participated in virtually all military conflicts of recent times, has attended the U.S. Army. In his armament and avionics constantly amended in the light of this experience.
Mi-28 fell into the army only in 2006. Since 2008, began its development instructor pilot in Torzhok. In 2010, the Army received a full squadron of "Night Hunter". Now formed the second. The Indians already had experience in purchasing "pre" samples of Russian arms. And certainly do not want, as in past times, get the whole bunch of related problems, more so for their own money.

Last year, during an exercise at the landfill during Gorokhovets practical shooting high-precision missiles, one of our Mi-28N has fallen. Thanks to the machine design - shock-absorbing chassis and a capsule in which the pilots are capable of withstanding an overload of 15 g, the pilots survived. But the fact that the engines of the helicopter from getting stalled rocket exhaust, the Indians certainly been noticed. And to convince them that now this annoying defect is eliminated, is useless. Even showing footage of the latest exercises, where a group of Mi-28 produces full ammunition and guided missiles remained after this in the air. As they say Russian experts in the Indian tender our only argument was that we Delhi - strategic partners for many years supplied India their weapons. It did not work.

But the chance to replay the situation remains. The fact that a decision on procurement of various types of weapons takes the Prime Minister. His decision is largely driven by the political preferences of the party which nominated him for the post. That is, if the party functionaries will adhere to the pro-American position, it will buy American technology. If the European views - would buy European fighters, as is currently happening in the tender for the supply of light fighters, of whom recently left our MiG-35. But the fact that elections in Indian states are literally every month. It's constantly changing political situation in the country. And the gain of one party in October, can easily be replaced by the defeat in November. And with it will change and the prime minister. So the chances of the Russian manufacturers of arms and military equipment to recover their lost positions always remain.

  • Pridružio: 23 Dec 2006
  • Poruke: 12379

Autor teksta lupa ko maksim po diviziji.

  • MiGac 
  • Ugledni građanin
  • Pridružio: 22 Dec 2008
  • Poruke: 478

mean_machine ::Autor teksta lupa ko maksim po diviziji.

Citat:The maximum combat load of "Apache" - 771 lbs. In Mi-28, for comparison, 2,300 kg.

771lbs*0,454=350kg Smile

Po tome je Gazela za Apachea, kao šleper za fiću Smile

  • Pridružio: 12 Jan 2011
  • Poruke: 1692

On je očigledno geos-strateški analitičar koji se ne razume u naoružanje ali se valjda i "kao" razume u trenutne odnose snaga "pro USA"vs "Pro Russia" u Indijskom vojnom establismentu...kao što sam rekao, ja sam siguran da je uticaj i pritisak amera da se uzme apach bio golem, ali Rusi nisu sigurno to "gledali iz daljine" tako da ako nije u pitanju poraz Mi28 onda je u pitanju poraz ruskog uticaja u indiji...što je dalekosežno gore od prvo navedenog za ruski export naoružanja u indiju.Mada ja ne bih zanemario procenu budućih odnosa snaga tj odnose Rusija-Indija-Pakistan-Kina, jer ako kina očigledno čvrsto stoji iza pakistana kao garant njihove "samostalnosti" a znamo odnose Indije i pakistana..postavlja se pitanje Rusije i njenog eventualnog stava u nekom eventualnom "zatezanju" odnosa izmedju Indije i Pakistana tj Indije i Kine.A stav USA prema kini je poznat a prema pakistanu se rapidno pogoršava bukvalno iz meseca u mesec..tako da po logici stvari Indija i tekako ima interes da se približi americi.

Još jedan zanimljiv tekst na temu tendera

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