Modernizacija kuvajtskih M-84

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Modernizacija kuvajtskih M-84

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  • Pridružio: 29 Okt 2006
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O.K. Hvala, zadovoljan sam odgovorom. Samo jos ako imas informacije i ako nije vojna tajna he he...koliko je tenkova M-84 proizvedeno u Hrvatskoj od njene samostalnosti.Znam da su kapaciteti Đ.Đ. oko 150 kom. za jedan proizvodni ciklus ali da nikad jos nije radio sa punim kapacitetima od samostalnosti Hrv. Proizvode li se tenkovi i danas za potrebe HV i kojim intenzitetom?



Registruj se da bi učestvovao u diskusiji. Registrovanim korisnicima se NE prikazuju reklame unutar poruka.
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  • pp5d6 
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Vezano za broj proizvedenih tenkova od neovisnosti Hrvatske vise je nedoumica. Sluzbeni podaci za posjedovanje M-84 su bili dosta dugo 65 (62 plus 3 modernizirane T-72 na standard M-84 A4).
Nedavno je izasao podatak u sluzbenim dokumentima 75 a ministar je izjavio 78.
Po mojim skomnim saznanjima taj je broj ipak veći.
ĐĐ od 1993 nije nikada radio niti sa pribliznim kapacitetom od toga broja (150) koliko on moze u jednoj godini proizvesti.
Kroz rat (na početku) se radila proizvodnja pojedinačnih ili svega nekoliko primjeraka i bili su neujednačeni po opremi koja je u njih ugrađivana, zbog embarga i mogucnosti dobave i nepostojanja vlastite proizvodnje dijelova. kasnije je u nekoliko navrata isla maloserijska proizovdnja.
Sredinom 90-tih (1995) ugovorena je najveca kolicina tenkova jednim generalnim ugovorom (51 komad).
Od toga generalnog ugovora upravo je do 2004.godine ispručena zadnja serija od 20 M-84 A4.
Ima sada nezavrsenih primjeraka, tocan broj nije bitan koji ce po svemu sudeci biti napravljeni u degman standardu i to ce biti zapravo 0-ta serija.
Nije lako drzavi osigurati lovu jer je potrebno izdvojiti i do 2,6 mln eura za jedan primjerak.
Sadasnji tenkovi u ĐĐ kostaju od 2,5 mln$ do 2,6 mln eura.
kad su se radili kroz rat kostali su izmadju 1,2 -1,6 mln $.



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  • Pridružio: 29 Apr 2007
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Inace M-84D ce izgledat ovakvo










Đuro Đaković will be producing the Degman under the serial production designation M-84D, essentially an M-95 Degman with significant adjustments.

Under 200 million USD modernization plan M-95 Degman will receive substantial upgrades. Cost of the program is estimated at 15 million Croatian kuna per tank, but depending on the additional packages cost might rise.

Altogethers new turret and new tracks are to replace existing turret and tracks, Turret will be made of composite armour (most likely laminate of high tensile steel and ceramics and tungsten). Turret will be powered by electric instead of hydraulic power source as it is the case now with the M-95. The new turret should provide minimum of 590mm Against Kinetic Energy (RHAe)ATG's, however additional reactive armour will add substantial protection. New tracks will also be made in Croatia either under license from German firm Diehl who manufactures tank tracks for Leopard 2 or altogether newly designed tracks from local manufacturer.

Talks are ongoing with Rheinmetall to provide M-95 with the new 120mm cannon currently in use on leopard 2 depending on the cost of Rheinmetall L55 120mm cannon, M-95 might be armed either with the improved Croatian made 125mm cannon or German Rheinmetall L55 120mm cannon.

New optronic suite and sensors will also feature prominently in new improved M-95 (M84D) tank. New Fire control, laser rangefinder, stabilized panoramic observation and targeting system are just some of the improvements. New Thermal imaging camera for commander and driver so tank can operate at night and many more improvements. New 1200 hp power plant will also be installed in to new tanks giving strong power to weight ratio.

Evo imam informaciju od ovog tenka

Dopuna: 29 Apr 2007 20:01

As we have learned from the defence ministry, the Slavonski Brod-based company is not considering collaborating on this project with Serbian companies as it already has a wide network of partners with whom it can completely round off the M-84D tank program. Unlike the M-84 tanks currently in Kuwaiti armoured units, the upgraded tank will have a thermovisual camera through which it will be able to detect all targets emitting heat at a distance of up to several kilometres from the tank, regardless of fog, night or if they are hidden in the shadow if some other object.


An electrically powered cannon and cupola, and accompanying assemblies, whose installation is in process, will be procured from well-known Western European manufacturers of tank equipment. Up to now the cannon and cupola propulsion was hydraulic. Electric cannon and cupola propulsion is the trend in the development of modern tanks, used on the US Abrams and the French Leclerc. The tank commander will be able to fire on two targets at once, even if the second crew member responsible for firing is incapacitated, as the operation and aiming of the firing station will be possible from the cupola, both of the 125 mm cannon and the remote control of the 12.7 mm machine gun without exposure to enemy fire. Air conditioning will also be installed on the tank. The protection of the tank and its crew, the commander, gunner and driver, has been significantly improved with the new SZ-D defence system which, for example, in the case of a nuclear strike and the used of chemical weapons immediately shuts down the engine and closes its exit shutters, shuts off the positive air pressure compressor and ensures the filtering of the crew's air supply, quicker and more efficiently than previously. Soon after a critical situation of that kind, the defence system raises all existing combat functions regardless of the level of pollution in the soil and atmosphere.

Bravo hrvatska moja domovina !!

Dopuna: 29 Apr 2007 21:03

Samo da oni stavi raketu na ovaj tenk, onda ce biti luda vojska

Dopuna: 29 Apr 2007 21:12

THE KUWAITI ARMY has not responded to Polish and Serbian offers to upgrade their M-84 tanks, nor for the purchase of US Abrams tanks, because it wants the upgraded Croatian M-84D tank

A recent statement Croatian Defence Minister Berislav Roncevic made before top Kuwaiti state officials that Croatian Government guarantees that the company Djuro Djakovic is technologically and organisationally entirely capable of meeting and fulfilling the demands of upgrading 150 Kuwaiti M-84 tanks and if need be to manufacture a further 66 tanks that were never delivered to Kuwait, but should have been in the early 1990s, has put Djuro Djakovic in a position to clinch the most lucrative deal in its history, worth about $300 million. The price of upgrading one tank would be up to a million US dollars, depending on the equipment package the Kuwaitis opt for, while the price of a new tank is about $2.5 million.

Kuwait has for several years now had offers to upgrade its M-84 tanks under consideration, but has not, however, given positive answers to any of the offers, not even to the most serious ones coming from Poland and Serbia back in 2005. It has also not answered positively the US proposal to sell its M-84's and replace them with more of the Abrams tanks already present in Kuwaiti armoured vehicle units. There are several reasons why Kuwait has shown great interest for Croatia. For Kuwait it was exceptionally important that the Djuro Djakovic Company maintained continuity and the development of its tank program with the M-84 over the past years, that tanks manufactured at Djuro Djakovic are used in Croatian Army units, that Croatia has continued to finance the program and that the Croatian Army will also use the new upgraded tank designated M-84D, for which it wants to close a deal with Kuwait on.

Besides that, the upgraded Croatian tank will have the same caterpillar treads made by German manufacturer Diehl that the Kuwaiti M-84 tanks already use, and which were installed just under two years ago, which demonstrates that Croatian product compatibility has been maintained with that of Kuwait.

Kuwait is very happy with the M-84 tanks manufactured back in the time of the former Yugoslavia because of their mobility in desert conditions, few breakdowns and much easier maintenance that is the case with the heavy American Abrams tanks, whose motors fail much more often in the desert. This happens because of a poorly designed air filtering system, allowing desert sand to enter the motor turbine, which is then starved of air, causing the motor to overheat and forcing a stop. When the turbine is ruined a new one takes up to a month to be delivered from the USA. The Abrams has poor mobility because of its weight and is an easier target, having a 2.5 square metres larger surface area than the M-84, which is in the large open spaces of the desert terrain, where there are no shelters, a significant problem. The M-84 is also ten tons lighter than the Abrams and can as such pass over all of the bridges trucks can use, which the Abrams cannot.

Besides that, the Abrams price tag is about US$ 5 million, which is double the price of a new M-84D. Kuwait has concluded that base production and a tank program of the upgraded M-84 been preserved only in Croatia, unlike in Serbia where a lack of financing and state support has seen only a single tank prototype designated M-84AB1 in three years, and the prototype has been in fact created in a factory that manufactures construction mechanisation, and not a tank program. The Serbian prototype is in fact the Russian T-90 tanks, as all of the components installed on the M-84 originate in Russia and Belarus. Kuwait is a country with probably the widest spectre of weaponry and military equipment when it comes to country of origin, all of which was done for political reasons, meaning good relations with the leading global powers.

In its armed forces it already has the Russian armoured vehicle BMP-3, the Chinese 155 mm howitzer, the British Warrior tank and the American Abrams. Entrusting the job to the Serbian manufacturer of the M-84AB1 tank with 80% of its parts of Russian origin would in fact mean paying for the upgrade and purchase of new Russian tanks, and that would upset the balance as far as origin of weaponry is concerned.

Defence minister Berislav Roncevic's trip to Kuwait and his statement of Croatian Government guarantees that the company Djuro Djakovic will meet all requests put to it, were after all key in having Kuwait, after several years of searching, turn to the original manufacturer of its tanks. And in June a Kuwaiti military delegation will be present at the premier of the upgraded Croatian tank, designation M-84D, at the Kindrovo testing grounds near Slavonski Brod after which Kuwait will likely in September of this year run final testing of the Croatian tank and make a decision by the end of the year.

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Tekst iz najnovijeg broja lista"Odbrana", razgovor sa direktorom Jugoimport-SDPR u kojem on kaže sledeće:
Citat:Najveće aktivnosti imamo na tržištu Kuvajta, gde je, pored tekućih poslova, u toku potpisivanje kapitalnog ugovora za Jugoimport-SDPR, a iza našu odbrambenu industriju u celini.
http://www.odbrana.mod.gov.rs/odbrana039/08-11.pdf

"u toku potpisavanje"(valjda su potpisali do sad)

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Da ne rušim Hrvatska nadanja:

Croatia and Serbia to modernize 150 tanks for Kuwait

16.3.2007 | Powered by PressCut
Croatian and Serbian companies may cooperate in the modernization of M84 tanks that Kuwait bought from the former Yugoslavia. The possibility of cooperation was announced by the Serbian side, but Croatian companies, and especially Duro Dakovic, where the tanks were assembled, do not reject it.

If the cooperation were to be realized, it would be the first such military cooperation between Croatia and Serbia since the war. The price of the modernization of the 150 tanks is estimated to EUR 200 to 250 million.
(Vecernji list)

http://limun.hr/en/main.aspx?id=136015

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@......
Citat:Croatian and Serbian companies may cooperate in the modernization of M84 tanks Ovo bi bilo logicno.
Ipak su ta preduzeca i napravila 84-ku.
Zna li neko sta je s preduzecima iz BiH u ovoj prici?

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  • pp5d6 
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BiH samo top, Srbija novi motor od 1200 KS ako je odmakao od labor. ispitivanja i ako Kuwajcani budu pri modernizaciji zeljeli novi motor.

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@pp5d6.....
Jesu li ovo zvanicni podaci, ili tvoje pretpostavke?

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  • pp5d6 
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Moje pretpostavke koje cesto budu tocne.Naime Hr je razvila automatski punjac za top od 120 mm sto mozda nije dobar znak za Bratstvo, jer bi Arapi u svom zahtijevu mogli biti vrlo konkretni za top.

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Da li neko zna koje su boje korišćene za nov M-84 kada se farbao devedesetih?. Mislim na osnovnu "zelenu" boju, recimo, kupole.

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