Problem održive PVO pred NATO alijansom

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CheefCoach ::Ulozice veliki novac u sistem koji mozda moze da funkcionise jedino pod uslovima da protivnik odradi sve prema njihovome planu. Ako PVO iskljuci radare i ukljuci poveliki broj mamaca, mnogi njihovi ,,jeftini krstareci projektili" ce zavrsiti bombardovanjem livada.

A sta cemo sa PVO srednjeg i kratkog dometa i cevnom PVO? Previse optimisticna ideja svakako

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Ako se pod održivom PVO podrazumeva ona koja je pokazala da je u stanju da izbegne uništenje od strane aviona NATO pakta onda se naša PVO definitivno pokazala kao održiva

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Nema bas tema za ovo, neka bude ovde



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Citat:The United States is reportedly patrolling the skies above Syria using stealthy F-22 Raptors.

The supersonically cruising air superiority jets are the only fighters in the U.S. inventory that can safely fly within the engagement envelope of Russian S-400 and S300V4 surface-to-air missiles defense while the Pentagon ascertains how the Kremlin will respond to the American cruise missile attack on Syria last week.

Indeed, the fighters would likely play an outsized role in suppressing those Russian missile batteries if the White House chooses to expand its campaign against the Syrian regime led by Bashar Al Assad, as they can operate in airspace where older conventional jets can’t.

“The Russian missile systems are a big issue for our fourth gen platforms,” a senior U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor pilot told The National Interest. “We’d use our fifth gen assets to include fighters, bombers and missiles if required to penetrate and strike targets as required.”

Nonetheless, the Russian missile defenses are formidable. “The S-400 is a true anti-access/area denial system to most aircraft, but we have the capability to maneuver inside of Syria to hold targets at risk,” the Raptor pilot said.

But while F-22 pilots are confident about the Raptor’s ability to defeat the S-300V4 and the S-400, the Air Force official acknowledged that the stealthy fifth-generation aircraft has never faced off against these next-generation Russian air defenses in actual combat before.

The Air Force is not 100 percent sure if the Russians have the capability to attack the Raptor or F-35—as the Russians have often claimed.

“I’m going to have to say ‘it depends’ and unfortunately I can’t elaborate due to security classification—hope you understand,” a senior Air Force official told The National Interest.

“You can make a case either way… The exact environment and other factors matter. Those who really understand the threat and are privy to F-35 capabilities would control the fight so that we are at an advantage to survive and kill. However, if you’re stupid, the F-35 can put itself into a vulnerable situation … Just like any weapon system.”

A retired senior Air Force official agreed that the Russian air defenses are a genuine threat—but that is why the service has advocated for buying more stealthy aircraft like the F-35.

“The S-400, S-300V4 and to a lesser degree the Pantsir batteries are a concern,” retired Lt. Gen. David Deptula—a former F-15C Eagle pilot and Air Force intelligence chief—told The National Interest. “And that is why some of us have been saying for over a decade now that low observability is key to successful operations and surviving in advanced integrated air defense environments.”

Air power analysts too agreed that the Russian air defenses would be a serious problem during the early stages of any air campaign.

“Initially, they would be a significant problem. If air strikes launched on Syrian forces—which is still a big if—their air defenses would be among the first targets attacked,” Mark Gunzinger, a former B-52 pilot and senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments told The National Interest shortly before last week’s cruise missile strike.


“Cruise missiles such as Tomahawks and JASSMs would probably be used to surprise S-400s and S-300V4s. There may be little need to use manned aircraft them against these threats, especially when other options exist to suppress them. I also suggest that an initial wave of standoff strikes would be launched by U.S. bombers operating from CONUS bases.”

“That would reduce the likelihood—however remote—of counterstrikes against regional airbases used by U.S. forces, plus it would reduce political friction with regional partners hosting U.S. air forces who would have to grant permission for offensive operations against Syria’s military. Of course, F-22s and B-2s would have significant roles to play, especially if an operation was intended to be more than a short, sharp, shock.”

Meanwhile, the Russians have long claimed that they can detect, track and engage stealth aircraft such as the F-22 and F-35. However, it is difficult to gauge the accuracy of the Russian claims.

“I do not know what will be the exact performance of the Russian SAM systems in this particular situation—I think it is hard to tell now,” Russian defense and foreign policy expert Vasily Kashin, a professor at Moscow’s Higher School of Economics told The National Interest.

“Russians claim that the long-range SAM can shoot down stealth planes, although the range could be reduced. Pantsir systems are primarily against missiles and bombs not the planes carrying them and they will act as the second line of defense. But this is a minor issue.”

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Napreduju projekti ovih rojeva [Link mogu videti samo ulogovani korisnici]

USAF Wants Swarms of Cheap "Gray Wolf" Cruise Missiles That Can Overwhelm Enemy Defenses
Citat:
The U.S. Air Force has hired Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to develop experimental low-cost cruise missiles that can act as a swarm in order to better navigate through or overwhelm enemy defense networks. As part of the project, nicknamed Gray Wolf, the service also wants a modular weapon that can readily accept updates and upgrades, as well as different payloads, ranging from conventional explosive warheads to electronic warfare packages.

On Dec. 18, 2017, the Pentagon announced the Air Force had awarded Lockheed Martin a $110 million contract for the Gray Wolf science and technology effort in its daily contract announcements. On Dec. 20, 2017, the notice said the service had made an identical deal with Northrop Grumman. The Air Force Research Laboratory’s (AFRL) Munitions Directorate at Eglin Air Force base is in charge of the project.

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13892 ::Ako se pod održivom PVO podrazumeva ona koja je pokazala da je u stanju da izbegne uništenje od strane aviona NATO pakta onda se naša PVO definitivno pokazala kao održiva

Po meni, neophodni minimum za svaku PVO je da obezbedi funkcionisanje kopnene vojske na liniji dodira sa neprijateljem. A minimum za to je odbaciti avijaciju iznad 4-5 km, makar po danu.

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Rojevi ce verovatno u buducnosti biti prvi izbor americke vojske, za prvi udar na protivnika koji ima visoko integrisan PVO.
Gray Wolf verovatno nece imati velik domet i jaku bojevu glavu, obzirom da ce raketa biti prilicno mala. Prvi avion na koji ce biti integrisana je F-16.

Druga stvar je da ce ukopani objekti verovatno moci da izdrze udar ove rakete, obzirom na manju bojevu glavu. Pored toga - onaj ko je mobilan moze da bude bezbrizan, obzirom da je u pitanju krstareca raketa.

Trece - osnovna stvar je uociti avion-lanser na dovoljnoj udaljenosti, kako bi mu se pariralo PVO sistemima velikog dometa (S-300/400). Jedna jedina PVO raketa opremljena glavom sa elektro-magnetnim udarom onesposobila bi i avion i ceo roj ispaljenih Gray Wolf. Stos je u tome sto su Sovjeti jos u vreme Hladnog rata razvili takvu PVO raketu za sistem Dvina/Volhov. Verujem da nije nikakav problem da se napravi ista takva varijanta bojeve glave i za S-300/400.

Cetvrto - cak i da dolete do cilja, imaju Rusi vec razvijen lek. Zove se RTUT, i omogucava prevremeno aktiviranje rakete koja dolazi na cilj. Kako RTUT radi mozete videti na sledecem snimku, od 10:55 :

Obzirom na odlicne rezultate, RTUT se preporucuje kao odlicni pratilac PVO sistema velikog dometa, bez obzira sto je prvenstveno namenjen kopnenoj vojsci. Jedan problem koji moze da se javi je prevremeno aktiviranje ispaljene PVO rakete (da ne ispadne - da aktivira svoju raketu koje izlece iz lansera). Mislim da se raketa za S-300 armira na 5km od lansera, a zona dejstva RTUT-a je 4km, tako da sa rezervom od 1km problem ipak ne bi trebao da postoji.

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Verujem da nije nikakav problem da se napravi ista takva varijanta bojeve glave i za S-300/400.

Ta varijanta postoji već godinama, zapravo decenijama, problem je što je nuklearna, bar za sada mada se napredovalo nešto i u nenuklearnim oblicima. To onda povlači domino efekat da rusi budu iznervirani što rokajau malim nuklearkama iznad sebe pa onda oni balsitičkim i(ili) krstarećim raketama opale po NATO bazama radi EMI efekta posle koga ide jato običnih projektila, što će opet iznerirati NATO. Neb ja čačko ...

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Rojevi/Gremlini

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13892 ::Ako se pod održivom PVO podrazumeva ona koja je pokazala da je u stanju da izbegne uništenje od strane aviona NATO pakta onda se naša PVO definitivno pokazala kao održiva

Potpuno se slažem. Ali je imala veliku manu. A to je kvalitet. Srbija u skoro 20 godina od rata sa nato alijansom na području PVO ima potpuno iste mane kao za vrijeme tog rata. Nije sposobna i danas da nanese alijansi gubitke, koji bi bili nepodnošljivi. Niti nije sposobna odbraniti vitalne objekte životnog značaja. Pa u tom kontekstu, gledamo komedijo ovih šipca, koji se duvaju po Bruselu i nekih sastancima, pa takse, pa upadi... jer znaju, da njim Srbija ništa ne može. A ovaj Vučič na sastancima vjerovatno ko Slobo" pa nečemo ljutiti nato sa nabavkama PVO sistema."