Something about possible Block II ? This is the latest article on theat subject...
Citat:
Pakistan and China have recently concluded a final agreement for the manufacture of a second batch of JF-17s. According to well-vetted sources from Pakdef (Eagle Hannan), these 50 jets are the final form of the JF-17s. The aircraft will be manufactured at Kamra, Pakistan, but will be flown to China for additional work. This work is said to relate to a new generation of avionics and sensor suite.
The Block II JF-17 is believed to have AESA radars similar to those observed on the J-10B. The integrated avionics, sensors and EW suite is entirely Chinese and is believed to be at the level of Europes best planes. The AESA radar is a slightly smaller version of the one being utilized for the J-10B. The radar is highly sophisticated and its installation is beyond the present capacity at PAC Kamra and will thus require the aircraft to take a trip to Nanjing, China.
The Block II will be the standard version to be used in the PAF with the older Block Is to be retired after the end of production for the first 150 aircraft. This suggests that the structural changes needed to convert the Block Is to Block II standard are significant, suggesting considerable changes to the revised edition. The following are believed to be some of the key changes:
1. AESA radar
2. Comprehensive upgrades for low RCS profile including cockpit glass, RAM paint, refined structure, completely new nose structure for AESA, significant increase in the use of composites and retractable refueling probe.
3. Awaited integration of A-Darter missiles from Brazil / South Africa with HOBS capability and Brazilian HMS.
4. The BVR missile is the SD-10B which has been found more than a match for the AMRAAM-120 C5s. An unknown Meteor class missile is in the works beyond the SD-10Bs.
A significant export order has been secured and an entire squadron is being dedicated for training and familiarization of foreign pilots (Source: Eagle Hannan, Pakdef).
Contrary to conflicting reports in the media, this writer believes that the order for the FC-20s were finalized and that this order has increased to 58 planes. Given the recent crisis post-Abbottabad, the PAF is being beefed up in a hurry and the FC-20s will play a critical role in the defence of the Western sector. Given the nature of the mountainous terrain and the inability to use the F-16s, these platforms along with the JF-17 will prove to be of significant deterrence value. China is believed to be sacrificing its own production requirements to meet PAF's needs in a hurry and unbelievable financial terms appear to have been extended.
the members in pakistani forums also go through 3 threads on this forum -- chinese fighter, j10 and fc1/jf17 thread
some info--
the blk1 will consist of first 50 fighters--PAC is producing them at a rate of 2.5/month - they will be later sold off , or used for training foreign pilots
blk2 might consist of 100 fighters-- 50 will be handed to paf from china till the end of this year-they will later be also upgraded to blk3 standard - it has more composites, better radar , forward fuselage is heavily modified in diamond shape , the targeting pod might have seperate connection thus freeing a pilon.-- not sure if probe will be fixed or retractible-- picture of both have been seen in PAC.
Dopuna: 06 Jun 2011 15:18
thrust to wt ratio of blk1 with rd33 is greater than 1.01
the cone size [where radar is placed] is greater than that of f16, mirage and rafale-- it is a little less than that of eurofighter-- this shows that jft has the space to carry big radar -- rumours of aesa radar are present confirmed for blk3 , not sure for blk2---
however the radar on blk2 is very heavily modified and key components will come from china0-- radar is better than paf f16 blk52+
Dopuna: 06 Jun 2011 15:25
pakistan is getting around 150 of j10b--- paf will induct it before iaf inducts its mmrca
strong rumours of chinese base in pakistan will j-11bs is also heard of to protect gwader
ra'ad air launched cruise missile has been upgraded and integrated to jft aswell as mar1 antiradiation missile
paf is getting sd10b which has both active and passive capability
Dopuna: 06 Jun 2011 15:33
the pilots on first batch of jf17 are all f16 pilots -- they were also involved along with pac engineers in designing the jft
the demo is done by fighter pilot-- he is not a demo pilot --- the actual performance of jft is only shown privately to potential costomers at the moment
dsi has reduced the frontal rcs of jft by 30% , if you compare prototype1 and 4
VITEZFOREVER ::Od prvig viđenja na Fanborou oduševio san se aerodimakikom., finalnom izradom, modernim glaskokpitom kinekskim derivatima AIM-9 i AIM-120 - ( zapadnom-istočnom miksu elektronike) - PlL-8, 9 - PL-12 . Kao da vidim spioj MIG-21, Miraža 2000 i F-20 Tigersharka sa aerodinimački odlično urađenim stejkovima - (jedinstveno rešenje sa bočnim DSI uisnicuma. I FVW, i HOTAS i FADEC - za RD-93 ruski izvorni motor. Odnos masa-potisak 1/ 1.2 - očigledno u korirst potiska i uvek prisutnog viška snage. Kad se pogleda izbliza čovek da nepoveruje da se radi o kineskoj finalnoj izradi.
- Na vreme je Kina kupila 2000. RD-93 motora i uveliko radi na nekom svom derivatu WS-?.
- Nude ilicencu proizvodnju, cena 15.miliona evra bez naoružanja i prateće opreme. Slabija tačka mu je radar, ali se sa izraelom vrše pregovori oko kupovoine modernijeg. Glaskokpit u celosti ELBIT .
- Šteta što se Rusija nije svojevremeno opredelila među ostalim avionima i za jednomotorni multirol za kupce sa plićim đepom a dobili bi naslednika MIG-21 ekstra i veliko izvozno tržište. Tačno Rusija je bacila akcenat na SU-30-35 i SUHOJ biro uopšte ... ( a krajnje bacila u zapećak dugu tradiciju biroa MIG , umesto da su izvršili koheziju ova dva moćna avio biroa ). JF-17 u pojedinim oštrim manevrima, naročito borbrnom okretu u forsašnom režimu, što zahhvaljajući jakoj pogonskoj grupi, što aerodinamici i prevazilazi F-16. Sa novim radarom, multirol i više nego dobar. Preglednost iz kabine je odlična ! Za zemlje male geografse površine i jurišnik i preretač ... multirol u punom smisli reči a jako malog radarskog odraza.
Toliko kvalitetan da će Kinezi kao proizvođači kupiti ukupno 0 komada vlastitog aviona.
Aerodinamički odličan avion za generaciju koju predstavlja (MIG21, F8, ...), ali kasni samo 40-50 godina. Preglednost iz kabine je bolja od MIG21, ali neuporedivo lošija od f16, gripena, 29tke,...
Višak snage, tj. odnos potiska i mase veći od 1 je moguć samo kada u avionu nema ni litre goriva a pilot ima ispod 50 kila, čak ni pakistanci ne tvrde tu glupost (link - masa bez ijedne granate veća od 9 tona, motor sa forsažem daje 80KN potiska). Motor je dobro poznat sa svim svojim manama, od kratkog trajanja (nekoliko stotina sati, znači dodatan trošak kupovanja više motora za ionako kratkog života aviona), dosta velike potrošnje, jedini ostavlja dimni trag u današnje doba, a ima IC odraz da ga pretpotopni Redeye može rušit. Druga stvar kod motora je proizvođač tj. Rusija, koja neće dozvoliti da joj ova kanta ugrozi prodaju migova, tako da su već bili problemi kod isporuke davno ugovorenih klimova za pakistance. Kinezi s druge strane već 30 godina razvijaju motor, prije 20 je bilo samo što neće, prije 10 je već bio ugrađen i isproban ne samo WS-13, nego i WS-10, što znači da su NPO Saturn, Klimov i ostali već davno propali .
A onda ovih mitskih 15M$ (ili €). Čitav projekt je pokrenut kao jeftin i potrošan avion od 10M$, pa je prvo poskupio na 15M$, pa na 15M€. Ovu drugu tranšu su pakistanci kao prvi i jedini kupci i suproizvođači sa postojećom infrastrukturom, platili 25M$ po avionu. Jedva nabavili Elbitovu avioniku jer kinezi nisu razvili jeftinu kopiju, uz radar koji je nikakav i nepostojeći sustav za gađanje zemaljskih ciljeva. Da ugrade jači radar, OLS i kvalititan ECM, i gripen bi bio jeftiniji.
I nebi ga ni pakistanci uzeli, ali u par dana su im ameri sj****i stvar (tj. osamu), pa par talibana napravili miljardu dolara štete, i onda da objave kako su generali potrošili miljardu dolara na loš avion, pa neko bi morao odgovarat. Ovako će uz kineski kredit Blunder biti na papiru jači i od F22 i PAK FA skupa, a ujka Sama će moliti da im pokloni koji F16 koji je "nikakav" u odnosu na njihov JF-17.
Kinezi, puno moćniji J10 proizvode za manje od 30M$ i ne pada im na pamet bacanje para na ovo smeće.
Vas dvojica kada bi se sastali, neznas ko je gori. Iz jedne krajnosti u drugu.
Skoro su Kinezi potpisali za jos motora i sa njima nema nikakvih problema a WS-13 se od prosle godine testira na JF-17
Kina nikada nije ni planirala nabavku JF-17 niti ce ga kupiti jer je to avion koji treba Pakistanu. Pakistan je trazio od Kine dobar avion za male pare koji ce moci da bude napravljen u velikom broju. JF-17 je napravljen za Pakistan po onome sto su trazili. Nije to nikakv Eurofighter T-3 ali je najbolje sto postoji na trzistu za malo para. Onda ide J-10A po odnosu cene/dobijeno. Inace J-10A flyaway cene je spominjanih 27 miliona $ pa navise a tek ce biti vise za J-10B. Narano veca cena za inostrane kupce. J-10B ce biti u cenovnom rangu Gripena.
10-15 miliona $ je flyaway cena odnosno cena koliko kosta prozivodnja nabavka jednog JF-17 Pakistan za njihovu vojsku
TOP GUN ::Radar je KLJ-7. Po netu se provlaci 75 km za metu velicine lovca(3m2), prati 10 a gadja 2 mete. To je radar sa starijih MIG-29 i slicnih radara iz 90-ih na bazi NO10 samo modernije uradjen, ali nije bolji sto se tice detekcije. Verovatno ima i vise modova od njega. Bilo je tu saradnje sa Rusima. Jbg, napis'o ja par puta, ali podrivam veru u kineski radar kao neki strava super mega giga radar i nikad bre oni Pakistanci nisu hteli francuski i izraelski radar, oduvek su hteli bas ovaj Ima podrsku za kineske rakete, neznam jel tacno da ima i za ostale rakete koje Pakistan ima...
E sad moze opet da se postavi clanak u kojem Pakistanac hvali radar...
Bilo je tu prica o Grfio o Eltinom EL/M-2032, Francuzima sa Thalesom(tu su Indijci pritiskali da im se ne da pod izgovorom da bi Kinezi imali uvid u tehnologiju). Ipak su se odlucili za Kineze verovatno da bi dobili punu podrsku Kineza za ubuduce, posto imaju pun transfer tehnologije. Na prvim transama ce biti KLJ-7(sto je sasvim normalno za ove pare) a posle ce stici novi radar kroz nove Block II i III avione pa ce i stariji biti modernizovani.
someone9781 ::
I nebi ga ni pakistanci uzeli, ali u par dana su im ameri sj****i stvar (tj. osamu), pa par talibana napravili miljardu dolara štete, i onda da objave kako su generali potrošili miljardu dolara na loš avion, pa neko bi morao odgovarat. Ovako će uz kineski kredit Blunder biti na papiru jači i od F22 i PAK FA skupa, a ujka Sama će moliti da im pokloni koji F16 koji je "nikakav" u odnosu na njihov JF-17.
Kinezi, puno moćniji J10 proizvode za manje od 30M$ i ne pada im na pamet bacanje para na ovo smeće.
Ako je verovati rečima jednog našeg pilota, da i "jedna jedina podignuta letilica, može da "poremeti" 100%-izvodjenje neprijateljskog napada" šta bi značilo podići 80 aviona, pa da su na nivou mig-a 21, Tako da priča o tome kako ovaj avion ništa ne valja, i da je istinita, ako ga budu imali u tom broju biće značajan faktor "odvraćanja"(a ne verujem da bi Pakistan koji imam izuzetno "napete" odnose sa Indijom, sebi dopustio da ima potpuno ne upotrebljiv i "neodržiljiv" avion.naravno da uvek postoje GENERALI PATRIOTE koji žele da se nalapju love i da J-17 ima raznih slabosti, ali opet, cifra od 150 kom, pa da su Mig-21,bila bi za respect)
pakistan does not require very large range fighters as india is under 3 minutes flight away from paf airbases -- however it needs agile and low rcs fighters in more numbers.
china is a big country and has a large coastline to defend , so jft is not suitable for hina-- however rumours are present that china will buy 300 jft to replaceits f-7s , only when ws13 is ready
the version of klj10 present in jft is better if not equal to rc400--- after detailed paf tests it was chosen
http://www.pac.org.pk/elec_KLJ7.html
these ''smoke'' trails you see are not smoke, but fuel vapors not completely burned in the engine.
the blk1 is around 18 mil due to better avionics-- the blk2 will be more costly due to more composites and even better avionics
pac is not going to sell jft to other countries untill paf has atleast 150 jft
in the begining jft was to be a low end fighter -- but u.s embargoed 28 f16s which we had already paid for-- so the jft was re-designed as you see prominant changes in prototype4 --- paf f-16 pilots also evaluated gripen and eurofighter at that time and you can see compareable physical stats and similar cockpit layout
paf did not get bubble canopy for jft as it increases rcs aswell as drag
JF-17s are using dual launching rails for AAMs and AGMs.
Block II configurations were layed down since last September (2010)
RETRACTABLE IFR? Till last news, it was NOT retractable. RAM Coating is a definate yes.
Dopuna: 07 Jun 2011 3:28
pac kamra
sd10 firing
Dopuna: 07 Jun 2011 3:38
jft cockpit
Dopuna: 07 Jun 2011 3:39
Dopuna: 07 Jun 2011 3:42
gripen cockpit
Dopuna: 07 Jun 2011 3:52
airforce monthly has published a 24 page supplement on jft [afm june edition] scans on defence .pk
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Ima podrsku za kineske rakete, neznam jel tacno da ima i za ostale rakete koje Pakistan ima...
