Su-57 novi ruski lovac

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Citat:Т-50 ко Дню Победы приобрели специальную «пиксельную» окраску
Фото: Объединенная авиастроительная корпорация

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Један дужи чланак, добар.

No, The Su-57 Isn't 'Junk:' Six Features We like On Russia's New Fighter

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20434/no-the-.....ew-fighter

уђите на линк ради детаља

Citat: - Side Facing Cheek-Mounted Radars
- Infrared Search and Track
- Directional Infrared Countermeasures System
- Austere Airfields Welcome
- 3D Thrust Vectoring:
- Unique Weapons Bay Configuration

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Tom analitickom tekstu mozemo zbog detalja dodati ovaj proslogodisnji :

Sukhoi Su-57 - The Anti-Stealth Game Changer.

http://fullafterburner.weebly.com/aerospace/sukhoi.....amechanger

Ima dosta toga gde se ponesto moze nadovezati ,nadopuniti podacima itd .Dobro je da imamo ovakve tekstove .

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ray ban11 ::^

Tom analitickom tekstu mozemo zbog detalja dodati ovaj proslogodisnji :

Sukhoi Su-57 - The Anti-Stealth Game Changer.

http://fullafterburner.weebly.com/aerospace/sukhoi.....amechanger

Ima dosta toga gde se ponesto moze nadovezati ,nadopuniti podacima itd .Dobro je da imamo ovakve tekstove .

Фино четиво мада оне 00000 ми недају сан.

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Ne treba se vise obazirati na te silne nule .Znamo da Ruje imaju onaj CNII V VKO pored Tvera i nista im ne moze promaci na tom planu .Neka pisu sta hoce ,recimo ovaj autor Tajler gresi kad komentarise ovako:

Citat:The Su-57 is also said to incorporate L-band radar arrays blended inside its large maneuvering leading edge extensions. These radars are more for target discrimination and identification than anything else.

To nema veze sa navedenim ,zapravo one antene u radio-prozracnim panelima odmah iza konusa prednje radarske antene sluze za tzv IFF .`Elovke` kako ih nazvah ,sluze upravo za protiv -stelt borbu tj za otkrivanje LO/VLO -vazduhoplova na vecim daljinama, na dm - talasnim duzinama , L-dijapazona .

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Napisano: 07 Maj 2018 15:10

ray ban11 ::
To nema veze sa navedenim ,zapravo one antene u radio-prozracnim panelima odmah iza konusa prednje radarske antene sluze za tzv IFF .`Elovke` kako ih nazvah ,sluze upravo za protiv -stelt borbu tj za otkrivanje LO/VLO -vazduhoplova na vecim daljinama, na dm - talasnim duzinama L-dijapazona .

Rej nisu ljudi tek tako odvalili da je to IFF, vec to je KRET potvrdio, ovo je ranije bilo na KRET a sad je ta stranica maknuta:

Citat:The product applied digital methods of forming and signal processing, which increases the probability of identification purposes in a complex target and noise conditions, as well as the accuracy of determining the position of targets in space.
AESA technology can significantly increase the energy potential and to improve the range, resolution, working areas at the corners of recognition objects detected airborne radar facilities.

Problem sa teorijom da je L afar nekakav sega mega antistelt radar je prosta fizika. Npr Gamma-DE radar:
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Low-Band-Radars.html#mozTocId228464

Uporedi domet tog radara i npr N035 protiv 0.1m2? N035 je tek nesto losiji. Gamma-DE ima oko 1000 L modula, koliko ih ima L afar kod Su-35/57? Koliko puta ce onda biti manji domet krilnog L afara u odnosu na Gamma-DE radar?

Na stranu sto krilni AFAR ne moze da odredi visinu jer je u pitanju 2D antena.

Dopuna: 07 Maj 2018 15:41

https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?135.....ost2254356

Evo i jedno mogucih objasnjenje zasto krilni AFAR kao IFF:

Citat:L-band AESA in Su-35 is not IFF for Irbis. You think, that all other planes, which didn't have this L-band AESA in their wings, don't have their IFF? Of course they have and Irbis have it too. Problem is, that IFF installed in radar ask for ID only those targets, which radar see. If they don't see, they don't ask. This big AESA in Su-35 and in PAK-FA could work independently and could constantly send in air space IFF ID signal and and all planes inside this air space will send back IFF ID signals, so they will locate targets through IFF ID signal and constantly asking for ID will mean, it will simply track its targets with IFF ID signals, although the main radar still don't see them.

Na toj temi imas vise u vezi toga ima i link ka KRET stranici gde je opisana funkcija krlinog L AFAR-a ali te stranice vise nema na samom KRET sajtu

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@mean_machine

`Mean` pazi jednu stvar ,zasto sam tvrdio tj napisao da tu ne bi trebalo da se radi o prostom IFF ,samo da ubacim onu Karlovu analizu koju odavno imamo :


Citat:
Search, track and missile midcourse guidance against low signature aircraft.
Identification Friend Foe / Secondary Surveillance Radar.
Passive angle tracking and geolocation of JTIDS/MIDS/Link-16 emitters at long ranges.
Passive angle tracking and geolocation of L-band AEW&C/AWACS and surface based search radars at long ranges.
Passive angle tracking and geolocation of hostile (i.e. Western) IFF and SSR transponders at long ranges.
High power active jamming of JTIDS/MIDS/Link-16 emitters.
High power active jamming of satellite navigation receivers over large areas.
High power active jamming of L-band AEW&C/AWACS and surface based search radars at long ranges.
High power active jamming of guided munition command datalinks over large areas.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-06.html

U medjuvremenu da ponovimo ono iz jednog analitickog teksta ,veoma dobrog ,mozda i boljeg od ovog novog koji sad imamo :

Citat:THE TWO WING MOUNTED L-BAND AESA RADARS OF PAK-FA DESIGNATED N036L-1-01 WHICH IS UNLIKE ANYTHING THAT THE WEST HAS. THE L-BAND OCCUPIES THE 1.0GHZ TO 2.0GHZ REGION OF THE RADIO SPECTRUM CORRESPONDING TO WAVE LENGTHS OF BETWEEN 15CM TO 30CM. IT IS OF A SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER FREQUENCY AND THEREFORE LONGER WAVELENGTHS COMPARED WITH THE X-BAND WHICH STRADDLES THE 8.0GHZ TO 12.0GHZ REGION AND HAVE WAVELENGTHS BETWEEN 2.5CM TO 3.75CM. THE L-BAND IS ALSO A VERY CONGESTED BAND UTILIZED BY BOTH MILITARY AND CIVILIAN APPLICATIONS.

WHEN FULLY FUNCTIONAL AND MATURE, THIS L-BAND AESA RADAR HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE A GAME CHANGER IN AERIAL WARFARE. FIRSTLY IT STANDS A BETTER CHANCE OF DETECTING FIGHTER-SIZED STEALTH AIRCRAFT COMPARED WITH ITS X-BAND COUNTERPARTS AS MOST LOW OBSERVABLE AIRCRAFTS HAVE DESIGNS OPTIMIZED FOR STEALTHINESS IN THE X-BAND. MANY STEALTH SHAPING FEATURES SUCH AS JAGGED EXHAUST NOZZLES, FACETED SURFACES AND SPECIALLY SHAPED ENGINE INLETS BECOME INEFFECTIVE IN THE CONTROLLED SCATTERING OF INCOMING RADAR WAVES WHEN THEIR SIZE APPROXIMATES THE WAVELENGTH OF THE INBOUND PULSE. SO A L-BAND RADAR MIGHT JUST PICK UP A FAINT SIGNATURE WHERE THE X-BAND SEES NOTHING.

E sad, sta je meni od samog pocetka spoznaje ovih ` Elovki` jel , bilo zanimljivo ,pogledaj sta stoji za antenice L-dijapazona kod Zaslona :

Citat:«Заслон» -многоканальная система, включающая в себя две независимые электронно-управляемые решётки с 1700 излучателями в X-диапазоне и транспондерами L-диапазона с 64 передатчиками, объединёнными в единую антенну.

Ono sto smo nas dvoje davno tamo na temi o Lokomotivi pisali ,dakle ovde se radi ne o zracecim elementima predajnika/ PPM , vec o transponderima L-pojasa njih 64 kom( predajnici ) za potrebe IFF .Kod novih AFAR L-dijapazona kod 35ce i 57ce mi imamo sasvim nove predajno-prijemne module ,znaci zracece i to u AFAR .

Sta u nastavku pise Karlo :

Citat:A high performance L-band AESA is not constrained in its basic usage to supporting Counter-VLO search/track and IFF/SSR functions alone. Because the L-band is used by so many disparate services, coverage of this band opens up numerous other applications, once such an AESA has been installed:
Passive angle tracking and geolocation of JTIDS/MIDS/Link-16 emitters at long ranges.
Passive angle tracking and geolocation of L-band AEW&C/AWACS and surface based search radars at long ranges.
Passive angle tracking and geolocation of hostile (i.e. Western) IFF and SSR transponders at long ranges.
High power active jamming of JTIDS/MIDS/Link-16 emitters.
High power active jamming of satellite navigation receivers over large areas.
High power active jamming of L-band AEW&C/AWACS and surface based search radars at long ranges.
High power active jamming of guided munition command datalinks over large areas.

On pominje ono sto mi vec danima pisemo ,dakle pasivnu radio-lokaciju tj radio-pelengaciju ali Su-35S ima zato posebne antene a Su-57 koliko vidim na ovim zadnjim prototipovima dodatne antene u onim prednjim hor. stabilizatorima .To mi zadnjih dana bode oci ,izgleda da oni ipak idu na 8 antena X i L-pojasa kod Su-57 .

O onim PPM u AFAR smo pisali i ranije ,Karlo je naveo neke TTK :

Citat:NPP Pulsar, the manufacturer of the TR modules and transistors employed in the modules, have made some most interesting disclosures which are very helpful in assessing performance:
TR module frequency band coverage between 1.0 and 1.5 GHz.
TR module volumetric power density of 2 kiloWatts/litre.
TR module nominal power rating of 200 Watts per TR channel, for a total of 2.4 kiloWatts per array, and 4.8 kiloWatts for a two array installation.

Jos nesto ,kad pominjes recimo RERP 0,1m2 opet ponavljam ,ono sto u X-pojasu ima recimo 1m2 to isto u L-pojasu moze imati i do 10m2 ako ne i vise .Secas se one jel bese brazilske digit. sim. RERP metalnog modela F-22A ,koliko mu bese RERP na 1.25GHz oko 200m2

Znaci nije isto ozraciti nesto u X-dijapazonu i L-dijapazonu ,to je izgleda caka u svemu tome .Otuda i onaj komentar :

Citat:SO A L-BAND RADAR MIGHT JUST PICK UP A FAINT SIGNATURE WHERE THE X-BAND SEES NOTHING

Po TTK , Irbis ce otkriti i pratiti nesto u X-pojasu od 0,01m2 i to je sasvim dovoljno .Verovatno isto vazi i za N036 .Meni je zanimljiv detalj kod ovih novih prototipova druge faze te sad ovih novo -prefarbanih iz prve faze gde vise nema onog znaka `Opasnost zracenje` ( upozorenje o prisustvu jonizovanog zracenja ) bas na radio-prozracnim panelima gde se nalaze AFAR L-dijapazona.

Doduse toga nema ni kod Su-35S a sama cinjenica da se radi o AFAR ,dakle radarskim antenskim resetkama sa akt.el. skeniranjem govori o tome da tu nema ni govora o pravom IFF -uredjaju kao sto to vidimo kod Zaslona gde pored zracecih 1700 PPM vezanih za onaj 10kW-atni predajnik imamo i 64 predajnika-transpondera za potrebe sistema identifikacije Svoj-tudj .

Malo je nelogicno da jedan Su-57 pored IFF antena iza prednjeg radarskog konusa ima jos 4 antene L-pojasa koje mu sluze samo za IFF .

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Cela ta priča o ugradnji antena L dijapazona u krila i td,mi deluje apsurdna u sadašnjem vremenu...Nidžo,brate,pa nisu uspeli mini-radarče da ugrade u žaoku Su-34...stavili mu turbo-starter na to mesto,tu jedino moglo,ma hajde...a kod '29-ke stoji daleko od repa...
Još uvek je sve to u fazi ispitivanja i nije blizu praktične upotrebe po meni,a da ima mogućnosti primene,ne sporim da teoretski da.

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Zasto mislis da je sve to apsurdno kad je ista ta antena ,dakle AFAR L-pojasa vec godinama operativna na Su-35S drugar ? Ovo kod Su-57 jeste u probnoj fazi ,to stoji ali je moguce da tu ima nekih tehnickih noviteta jer kod Su-57 se radi o cak 4 takve antene ,kod Su-35S imamo 2 sa dve antenice radio-pelengatora .

Sto se Su-34 tice ,mislim da je ona prica u vezi radara N012 bila vise reklamnog karaktera nego neka realna ideja .Dovoljno je da ima antene / signalizatore radarskog ozracenja iz ZPS ,neke nove optoel. detektore i dr .Cemu radar za osmatranje ZPS a sto se onog turbo-startera tice ,pa repna gondola se tu nametnula kao idejno resenje i pozicija za to s obzirom da je ostatak planera vec bio popunjen sto velikim agregatima pogonske grupe,rezervoarima kerozina itd ..

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Pa da metalan model a tih 200m2 je bio najveci odraz spreda nije bas jasno da li se 90stepeni ili na 180stepeni tj PPS.

Ako pogledas kinesku studiju za Su-57 gde model nije metalni najveca vrednost tog odraza je ~0.5m2 za 90stepeni.

Neko ce reci da je F-22 frontalni odraz manji mozda da mozda ne, pa nek bude ~0.5m2, evo Karlov grafika dometa krilnog AFAR-a:
http://www.ausairpower.net/XIMG/NIIP-L-Band-AESA-Range.png

30km sa sadasnjim modulima i 50km sa nekim u buducnosti. To i nije neki domet ako pogledas podatke za Irbis-e, konkretno 90km za 0.01m2, dakle da su F-22/35 0.001m2 Irbis-E ce ih detekovati na 45km sto je vise nego sto moze sadasnji krilni Afar a tek nesto manje od nekog buduceg.

Plus sto Irbis-e ima mogucnost da odredi visinu krilna Afar nema.

Zanimljivo da F-35 ima takodje nekakve duze aesa antene u krilima.