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Poslao: 28 Avg 2013 13:12
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zixo ::Да се вратимо само на салво код МиГ-а 25. Можда грешим али мислим да сам видео снимак где се са тог авиона испаљује салво од 4 ракете Р-40 у ИЦ и ПАРС варијатни.
Salvo moze da ispali bilo koji avion koji nosi R i IR rakete, jednostavno ispalis 1 ili 2 radarske zatim ubrzo napravis zahvat sa IR raketama i ispalish njih dve, e sad Mig-25 nema IRST i rakete su mu veoma manjeg dometa od recimo Su-27, mi pricamo o daleko opasnijeg po cilj salvo ispaljivanja gde se ispaljuje radarska sa IR raketom u tandemu, a cela filozofija iza toga je da u takvom scenariju cilj ima veoma poteshkocha sa ometanjem 2 rakete za razlicitim navodjenjem..jer zadnjih 25 godina recimo ECM tehnologija je daleko napredovala od recimo Vietnamske ere pa samim tim i potreba za zbunjivanje odbrane aviona koji je gadjan je daleko napredovala pa su se pojavili termini kao Lock on Jam, aktivne glave a u taj moderni paket i ovo meshovito salvo
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Registruj se da bi učestvovao u diskusiji. Registrovanim korisnicima se NE prikazuju reklame unutar poruka.
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Poslao: 28 Avg 2013 13:21
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- ray ban11
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 17 Sep 2010
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zixo ::Реј на којој даљини ракете Р-27Т/ЕТ могу да захвате циљ?
Nadjoh ovo drugar
Citat:Arsenal said it had developed a new infra-red seeker for the R-27 extending its detection range from 18 km to 30 km.
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Poslao: 28 Avg 2013 16:30
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- ray ban11
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 17 Sep 2010
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Evo nesto o cemu smo komentarisali sada na acig .
Citat:Clearly, the armament of the Su-27 is much heavier, but the question is if this is actually as important in modern air warfare and how does this amount to in a fast moving engagement? Not that much. First of all it should be mentioned, that modern fighters do not have much time to use their weapons, nor are they likely to confront dozens of opponents. Modern air combats are characterized by their high speed and short duration: the results of the engagements are usually decided after the first exchange, and the subsequent loss of the situational awareness means that pilots from both sides will try to disengage in order to avoid being surprised by so eventually undetected enemy. The N-001 and the N-019 are heavily specialized for exactly this kind of engagements: they are mechanically scanned arrays they can only illuminate one target at a time, which in turn means that only one target can be engaged by SARH missiles. This brings to bear grave concern on validity of carrying a full load of six SARH missiles, as the aircraft is almost 95% sure to be able to attack only one target per mission. Thus the superiority in the number of weapons the Su-27 can carry is questionable, to say at least: it is not likely to engage more than one target per mission, it will carry the same mix of IR guided R-27Ts or R-27ETs as well as the R-27Rs and R-27ERs, but is very likely to be overloaded with weapons which it is not likely to use.
Due to their guidance system of homing onto the heat emissions the T and ET are fire and forget missiles. But they have major disadvantages: they do not possess a data link like SARH verstions, which means they can only be fired when the actual missile seeker is locked onto the heat emissions of the target. This severely limits the range that the T and ET can be launched at, despite their aerodynamic capabilities, and their powerfull motors. Also it is important to note that the range for detection with the radar drastically decreases in a tail-chase. So the R-27T/ET are really only useful in a tail-chase were the performance of the SARH missiles falls off and the IR homers have better range than in a head on aspect (this better range is due to the fact that the heat emissions of the target are much more prominent to the rear of the plane which, in a tail chase, would be facing toward the Su-27). So in reality, a combination of the two homing methods would be to the plane’s advantage: such combination is given on the MiG-29 as well as on the Su-27, but with the difference that the MiG-29 is more likely to engage at combat weights, and the Su-27 far more likely to be at overweight and within stress limitations at the moment of the first engagement. With other words: the MiG-29 will probably be ready to engage straight away, the Su-27 might need some precious time before the pilot will consider the condition – especially the weight factor – of this aircraft appropriate.
 http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_288.shtml
Iz ovog citata tj.teksta uopste se moze zakljuciti da bi u realnosti pilot Su-27 radije lansirao 2 xT/ET / T1/ET1/ u komentarisanom slucaju dakle u ZPS cilja koji se udaljava pogotovo ako je protivnicki lovac ukljucio forsaz .Moguca je makar teorijski opcija o kojoj smo pisali ali daljina od 5,6 km moze biti jedino min. efektivna nikako krajnja jedino u uslovima lansiranja na fonu zemlje ( znaci veoma male visine do 100/200m ) kako je i pojasnjeno u Prirucniku .
Naravno kao izvor podataka mnogo je pouzdaniji Prirucnik nego li ovaj tekst sa foruma ...
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Poslao: 28 Avg 2013 19:25
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- CHARLIE JA.
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 05 Apr 2009
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- Gde živiš: JAGODINA
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Našao na netu...
Samo mi onaj Su malo neobičan! Ili je iz takvog ugla snimljen...
MQ-1B Predator at Creech Air Force Base, in Nevada, taxing with a Sukhoi Su-27.
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Poslao: 29 Avg 2013 11:40
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- zixo
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 27 Sep 2006
- Poruke: 23450
- Gde živiš: Beograd
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У Пољској су летели и у тандему.
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Poslao: 29 Avg 2013 13:28
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- Pridružio: 30 Maj 2010
- Poruke: 156
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ray ban11 ::Evo nesto o cemu smo komentarisali sada na acig .
Citat:Clearly, the armament of the Su-27 is much heavier, but the question is if this is actually as important in modern air warfare and how does this amount to in a fast moving engagement? Not that much. First of all it should be mentioned, that modern fighters do not have much time to use their weapons, nor are they likely to confront dozens of opponents. Modern air combats are characterized by their high speed and short duration: the results of the engagements are usually decided after the first exchange, and the subsequent loss of the situational awareness means that pilots from both sides will try to disengage in order to avoid being surprised by so eventually undetected enemy. The N-001 and the N-019 are heavily specialized for exactly this kind of engagements: they are mechanically scanned arrays they can only illuminate one target at a time, which in turn means that only one target can be engaged by SARH missiles. This brings to bear grave concern on validity of carrying a full load of six SARH missiles, as the aircraft is almost 95% sure to be able to attack only one target per mission. Thus the superiority in the number of weapons the Su-27 can carry is questionable, to say at least: it is not likely to engage more than one target per mission, it will carry the same mix of IR guided R-27Ts or R-27ETs as well as the R-27Rs and R-27ERs, but is very likely to be overloaded with weapons which it is not likely to use.
Due to their guidance system of homing onto the heat emissions the T and ET are fire and forget missiles. But they have major disadvantages: they do not possess a data link like SARH verstions, which means they can only be fired when the actual missile seeker is locked onto the heat emissions of the target. This severely limits the range that the T and ET can be launched at, despite their aerodynamic capabilities, and their powerfull motors. Also it is important to note that the range for detection with the radar drastically decreases in a tail-chase. So the R-27T/ET are really only useful in a tail-chase were the performance of the SARH missiles falls off and the IR homers have better range than in a head on aspect (this better range is due to the fact that the heat emissions of the target are much more prominent to the rear of the plane which, in a tail chase, would be facing toward the Su-27). So in reality, a combination of the two homing methods would be to the plane’s advantage: such combination is given on the MiG-29 as well as on the Su-27, but with the difference that the MiG-29 is more likely to engage at combat weights, and the Su-27 far more likely to be at overweight and within stress limitations at the moment of the first engagement. With other words: the MiG-29 will probably be ready to engage straight away, the Su-27 might need some precious time before the pilot will consider the condition – especially the weight factor – of this aircraft appropriate.
acig.org/artman/publish/article_288.shtml
Iz ovog citata tj.teksta uopste se moze zakljuciti da bi u realnosti pilot Su-27 radije lansirao 2 xT/ET / T1/ET1/ u komentarisanom slucaju dakle u ZPS cilja koji se udaljava pogotovo ako je protivnicki lovac ukljucio forsaz .Moguca je makar teorijski opcija o kojoj smo pisali ali daljina od 5,6 km moze biti jedino min. efektivna nikako krajnja jedino u uslovima lansiranja na fonu zemlje ( znaci veoma male visine do 100/200m ) kako je i pojasnjeno u Prirucniku .
Naravno kao izvor podataka mnogo je pouzdaniji Prirucnik nego li ovaj tekst sa foruma ...
sve mi se cini da sam jedno 5 puta rekao da ti 5-6 km vaze za ispaljivanje rakete a ne za zakljucivanje cilja u ZPS, dakle ako R-27-et ima balisticki domet oko 60-70 km ( iznad 10 km visine) a cilj je u bezanju i to na forsazhu ta daljina je itetkako realna, ako se uzme u obzir da R-73 ima limit od nekih 3 km za cilj koji bezi, a za R-27ER je i po zvanicnim podacima ne vise od 10 KM, hajde sad proracunajte ? a eto da ne kazem ponovo, al u ovom tekstu koji ste prilozili isto tako pise i ono da je prakticnije salvo u ZPS, pa sve mi se cini da sam i ja to rekao nekoliko puta, a nigde se nepominje R+IR jer je kako rekoh lako na papiru a teze u praksi, pa gde sam ja to pogresio muzhoki !? 
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