Iračani su svakako imali R-73. Rej ne znam kada je objavljen taj tekst Toma Kupera o irackim migovima (gdje se spominje R-27T) ,ali mislim da je to neki od starih tekstova..Naravno greske se desavaju svima...
Tako je ,mada me ne bi cudilo da su Iracani za svoje 9-12B nabavili i integrisali one sa TGS tj R-27T1,koliko su samo eksperimentasali i improvizovali ,to znamo dobro .Vezano za iracke u prvom zalivskom ratu ,jos tada su Ameri strogo vodili racuna o tome da ne ulaze u BVB sa njima ,zbog R-73E i NSC ( KOLS ) .Svakako da su tada ta cuda tehnike bili bauk ali vidimo kroz izjave poljskih i bugarskih pilota da 29tka sa lakocom u sim- BVB dobija svoje protivnike i bez tih `cudevenija`, samo sa R-60MK i odlicnom manevribilnoscu tj odlicnim sposobnostima u zaokretanjima .
Tako je i bilo i svi navodi o tome da se takvo nesto desilo ( cak i neka licna svedocanstva pojedinih amer pilota ) ne stoje ,5 29ki Irackih VS-a je pogodjeno i oboreno raketama srednje daljine dejstva tipa AIM-7M iz PPS gde su glavnu ulogu odigrali E-3 ,sa druge strane Iracani su pogodili i oborili 3 aviona .
Da bi kolege shvatile zasto se rakete srednje daljine dejstva veoma tesko ili nikako ne mogu lansirati u uslovima vodjenja bliske manevarske borbe ( BVB tj `dog-fight` ) pogledajmo samo u VTUP ogranicenja za lansiranje recimo R-73/E ,to je +8g .Kako onda u ustaljenom/neustaljenom kruzenju lansirati velike rakete poput R-27/AIM-7/-120 ,nikako ,eto kako .
Interesantno za Iracane je da su tog jan. 1991 sa 29ma pokusali i u nekim slucajevima uspesli da obore B-52H i da su napadali visoke U-2(TR-1 ) .Slicnu akciju su planirali i nasi 1999g .Medjutim njih su cuvali citave grupe F-15C navodjeni od strane OZN u E-3 ,tako da su ti borbeni zadaci bili prakticno unapred osudjeni na propast.Ne zaboravimo da se 29tka potpuno naoruzana i natankana nakon poletanja pri V=1000km/h popne na 11 km za manje od 60sek .
Inace tokom borbenih priprema i razrade taktike bojeve upotrebe Orlova protiv 29tki ,Ameri su se konsultovali sa prebegom Aleksandrom Zujevim ( prebegao 29kom na turski aerodrom Trabzon maja 1989g ) .
Sa irackog foruma :
Citat:MiG-29
delivered: 37
sent abroad during 1980s: 0
Accidental losses: 1 (1990, 39sq)
Combat losses: 0
remaining in 1990: 36
destroyed in 1991: 17
damaged in 1991: 4
flew to iran in 1991: 4
survived after 1991: 11
Podaci o gubicima B-52 u Iraku su
Citat:During the conflict, the Iraqis made several claims that they had enjoyed some air to air fighter success, but this was a tall tale. Just one Iraqi pilot successfully damaged a B-52G (nr.58-0248) firing missile R-27R from his Mig-29 on the first night of the war. USAF disputes this claim, stating that the bomber was actually hit by friendly fire - rocket AGM88 that was homed by fire control radar operated by B-52 tail gun. Bomber landed safely at Jeddah and was later renamed 'In harm's way' due to the event. https://images.spot.im/image/upload/f_auto,q_70,fl.....44ae798981 https://images.spot.im/image/upload/f_auto,q_70,fl.....433ae57dae Citat:One B-52G (nr.59-2593) was lost while returning to its operating base on Diego Garcia, when it suffered a catastrophic electrical failure and crashed into the Indian Ocean, 2-3 miles north of the island. Eight other B-52s suffered varyng degrees of damage from missile and AAA srtikes or other causes
za U-2
Neki nasi piloti jesu 1999g imali vlazan san da obore U-2 , ALI da li je U-2 uopste leteo nad/pored SRJ, posle 24. marta '99 ?? Inace taj U-2 je legalno leteo (do rata) nad SRJ po sporazumu NATOa sa Milosevicem od jeseni 1998. Da, Milosevic (SRJ/VJ) je dozvolio prelete U-2 (USA-NATO) aviona nad zemljom, kasnije je tom NATOu predao i cetvrtinu Srbije (KiM) i gratis 25km VZB i 5km KZB od admin. linije u dubinu cent. Srbije. U tu istu KZB je 'NATO placenicka vlast' 2001g vratila vojsku i policiju.
U jedinoj dokumentovanoj borbi F-15ca i irackih MiG-29, jedan iracki MiG-29 se zakucao u zemlju a na drugi je lansirana AIM-9 ali je promasila, dakle radilo se o bliskoj borbi tih aviona i to prilicno zestkoj ako se avion zakucao u zemlju.
Dopuna: 02 Mar 2018 0:56
ray ban11 ::@Zandar
Evo jedne poznate slike unistenog irackog ,e sad pored R-27R1 i APU-470 da li je ovo ispod krila APU-73 tj bile rakete R-73E ?
Sta se cudis sto su 29tke uspevale da gadjaju ,pogode i obore ogromne B-52, ( naravno to su iracki izvori ) ,sta je to bilo nesto tesko jel ? Pa jesu Vijetnamci sa Kecevima obarali iste krajem 60tih ,pocetkom 70tih ???
Cak i u tim navodima sto si stavio pise da je jedan izgubljen zbog cega ? Otkaza el. opreme ,jeste sigurno ,pa jos navode da je 8 osteceno ,jedan pogodjen raketom AGM-88 ,nije sala .
Po cemu je to bio vlazan san nasih 1999g da pridju i obore U-2 koji je naravno leteo u VaP SRJ tokom NATO agresije ( poslusaj sta kaze pilot D. Milenkovic u emisiji `Niko nije rekao necu 2` ) .Uzmi u obzir da se 29tka natankana i naoruzana na 11 km visine popne za manje od 1min a U-2 leti u stratosferi na oko 20 km visine ,polazni parametri za ostatak racunice ...
@mean
Dajmo ljudi ,kakav BVB, kakvi bakraci, sta zakucao se u zemlju tokom vodjenja BVB,pa na kojoj su visini to vodili BVB da mi je znati ,na 50 ,100m .BVB izmedju F-15C i 29tki nije bilo ,sve su pogodjene i oborene sa AIM-7M ,to jos i njihovi izvori navode .Kakav BVB ,pored NSC i R-73E cak i da nije imao sve to, opet sa R-60MK i boljom okretljvoscu ,boljim zaokretanjem( ugaone brzine ) ce 29tka sa lakocom izmanevrisati Orla .
To za R-60MK ispod krila,hm moguce stvarno ,sad nesto gledam ,recimo ovako, raspored: APU-470,APU-73 i APU-60-1
Nista potrazicemo neku sliku irackog bas sa R-73E ako je ima, tesko da nju nisu dobili ,hm pogledajmo samo sta su sve dobili sa MiG-25PDSG npr ,takvu opremu mislim da drugi nisu imali .
`Mean` sad nesto gledam ovu fotku od neki dan
Citat:
Da ovo na kraju nije mozda APU-73,pogledaj i poredi sa ovom gornjom slikom ove drzace lansera na donjaci levog krila( gledano od iza naravno ) ,sta mislis ?
Ako nema fotografija rakete i ako sami Iracani kazu da je naoruzanje bilo R-27 i R-60 onda R-73 nije bilo u Iraku. Mozda je planirano da im dostave. Videcu da na jednom forumu pitam lika koji zna bas dosta o njihovom rv mislim da je bivsi pilot pa cu napisati odgovor.
Ako nije bilo R-73 onda BVB uopste nije toliko opasan po F-15 a ja nigde nisam procitao da im je neko branio da ulaze u BVB.
Ako nije problem da to pitas,hvala. Sto se BVB bez njih tice,rekoh ranije ,F-16CM dobijaju samo sa R-60MK bez R-73/E i bez NSC .
Sto se baziranja irackih tice ,do 1991g ,6ta lae je bila u AB Al Takadum pored Habanijaha
Citat:Al Taqaddum Airbase (Arabic: قاعدة التقدم الجوية), or Al Taqaddum AB (IATA: TQD, ICAO: ORAT), (Called TQ in military shorthand slang), is an airbase that is located in central Iraq, approximately 74 kilometers west of Baghdad, at Habbaniyah. The airfield is served by two runways 13,000 and 12,000 feet (3,700 m) long .MiG 29 Iraqi Air Force 6th Squadron
Zanimljivo je da su ABS u toj bazi gradili upravo nasi
Citat:According to the Gulf War Air Power Survey, there were 24 Hardened Aircraft Shelters at Al Taqaddum. At each end of the main runway are hardened aircraft shelters knowns as a HAS (pronounced Haas), "trapezoids" or "Yugos" which were built by Yugoslavian contractors some time prior to 1985.
39ta lae 29tki je bila moguce u AB Dzaliba ,evo jednog unistenog u toj bazi ili je tu stalno bazirao ili se zatekao dislokacijom .Po nekim izvorima maticna baza 39te lov.esk je bila Alwaleed / H3 AB. I u toj bazi su ABS gradile Ju-firme ...
Citat:H-3 Air Base (code-named 202C, 202D) is part of a cluster of former Iraqi Air Force bases in the Al-Anbar Governorate of Iraq. It is a cluster of airfields located in a remote stretch of Iraq's western desert, about 435 kilometers from Baghdad in western Iraq. It is close to the Syrian-Iraqi border, and near the highway that connects Jordan with Baghdad.
Citat:Companies from Yugoslavia – previously engaged in building bridges in Iraq – became involved in airfield construction. Due to their specific construction of these airfields – which included taxi-ways leading right out of Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS) and laid diagonally to the runways – they became known as "Trapezoids" or "Yugos".
The protection of each HAS consisted of one meter thick concrete shells, reinforced by 30 cm thick steel plates. There was only one entrance and this was covered by sliding doors, made of 50 cm thick steel armoured plate and concrete. The HAS' were usually built in small groups – seldom more than five, with each group sharing the same water and power supply, besides having own backup gasoline-powered electrical generator, and each HAS being equipped with a semi-automatic aircraft-refueling system.
Американские и британские специалисты осматривают остов МиГ-29 на аэродроме Джалиба. С этого самолета они демонтировали носовую часть, в которой расположена РЛС.
Jos jedna fotka irackog sa APU-470 na sredini ,sa spoljne strane je APU-60 a sa unutrasnje je cini mi se nosac UbS V-Z ?
U vezi sa ovo slikom, ide pitanje,sta se nalazi u onoj zelenoj otvorenoj kutiji koja viri iz kapotaza iznad desnog uvodnika vazduha ?
Neke info sa `f-16.net`
Citat:Starting by Jan 17 1991
Claimed By Coalition aircrafts
1 MiG-29 downed by F-15C pilot Kilk squadron/wing ( 58/33 ) weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-29 downed by F-15C pilot Draeger squadron/wing ( 58/33 ) weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-29 downed by F-15C pilot Magil squadron/wing ( 58/33 ) weapon AIM-7
IrAF losses Jan 19 1991 claimed by USAF
1 MiG-29 by USAF F-15 Pilot Underhill squadron/wing 58/33 weapon AIM-7
1 MiG-29 by USAF F-15 Pilot Rodriguez squadron/wing 58/33 weapon Maneuvre
Iraqi AF admitted losses :
1 MiG-29 pilot Tariq Saed squadron 39 by US F-15 Pilot KIA
1 MiG-29 Pilot Emad Mohammed Saed squadron 39 by US F-15 pilot KIA
1 MiG-29 Pilot Jameel Sayhood ( Ejected ) squadron 39 by US F-15
Posto me sve ovo oko Iracana moram priznati zaista zainteresovalo ,zaintrigiralo sto bi rekli ,nadam se da ce i ostalu moju druzinu pronadjoh nesto vrlo zanimljivo pa pogledajmo tj procitajmo ispovest dva veoma hrabra iracka pilota-lovca kap. Kasima Halafa Hamada i kap. Dzamel Sajhuda.
Sa foruma `f-16.net` je ovo sto sledi :
Citat:The famous DS dog fight F-15s Vs MiG-29s Iraqi perspective
On Jan 19 1991 the Iraqi AF mounted an intercept mission with 2 MiG-29s to shoot down E-3 AWACS aircraft and as a result engaged by US F-15Cs ... The story is documented by western media but No one heard the Iraqi story ... The US version claims 2 MiG-29 were downed while the Iraqis claims only one ...
This is the story according to Iraqi pilots..
Part I
Captain Qasim Khalaf Hamad - Squadron 39 - Alwaleed / H3 AB
The third day of the war started with Fog and scattered clouds with poor visibility in the early hours of the morning ... Black smoke mixed with fog ... Smell of explosives and bombs cover all the aircraft shelters with unprecedented silence !!
But inside the base shelters the squadron members were working with all their will to detect targets and to make the right decisions for intercept.
The air defense sector had notified us that there is a formation of 4 RAF Tornados approaching the base probably carrying anti-runway bombs .... And there is another formation of 4 F-15C with an AWACS aircrafts probably providing top air cover for them ..
Captain Jameel Sayhood and Captain Alaa Abdul Aljabbar were on standby alert in case the Tornados headed to our base ... I was on standby also as No.2 with my formation leader Major Qutaiba Saeed .... But the Air defense sector ordered us to try to attack the AWACS aircraft which is very important target and we might have a good apportunity because the F-15Cs might be busy protecting the British Tornados which may leave a small chance for us to sneak undetected toward the AWACS but in case the F-15Cs were vectored toward us we had to break the engagement and return to base because 4vs2 is bad sitiuation for us ...
We took off at 1145 Jan 19 1991 and soon we reached 10,000 feet , the GCI directed us toward the US formation and to my suprise no one engaged us ... I switched ON my radar and prepared R-27R missile and locked the target the Target was in my range and I fired but the Lock was broken !!!! Definitely it was powerful ECM .... The GCI by this time had notified Major Qutaiba Saeed that 2 F-15Cs are turning toward us ... So the he ordered me to break the engagement as there is no use to continue the attempt .... But I was determined for one last try ... I repeated my attempt again but the lock was broken also ... So I decided to head back to base with only 2 heat seeking missiles remained on board .. By this time I was alone as my formation leader Major Qutaiba Saeed had left and his aircraft was carring the French Remora ECM while my aircraft hadn't ....
But before I turned the 2 F-15Cs already reached me and we were in the merge .... One passed to the right and one to the left and I saw the sun reflection over the glass of their canopy .... I turned my head to the Right and noticed one of them is trying to put me in his direct sight while the other has seperated from the formation and headed high .... I pulled very hard turn 9.5 G for 3-4 seconds and become behind one of them ... I tried to prepare R-60M heat seeking missile but my SPO-15 notified me of I am being locked from 6 o'clock !! I pulled to up left then rolled down right ... Both of them moved left while I continued right toward H3 at 8,000 feet.
By this time Captain Jameel Sayhood joined the fight - who already shut downed a British Tornado ... His aircraft was carrying Remora ECM and we headed again toward the F-15C this time at 5,000 feet ... The F-15C turned again to face us and suddenly my SPO-15 warned me of incoming missile ... Probably an AIM-7 .. I pulled hard and evaded the missile then under less than 1Km I saw another missile probably AIM-9 so I pulled hard again and dropped flares and evaded the missile ... By this time I was head to head with one of the F-15C so I pulled right and he pulled the other way .. By this time the other F-15C had fired two missiles toward Captain Jameel Sayhood aircraft he managed to evade one of them but hit by the other and he ejected ...
I pulled again up and then down right 30 degrees and I break the sound barrier at very low altitude and reached the base with my fuel almost reached zero .... I landed at the base directly without turning around it ( I landed on the opposite site of the runway because not enough fuel for proper landing )..
I was not shut downed or hit the ground as the American claimed ... It probably the breaking of the sound barrier at low altitude and my disappearance from their radar due to ground clutter that made them think I was crashed to the ground ... And It was Captain Jameel Sayhood who was hit by the missile but I don't know why they Thought the opposite and mixed between us ... It had been over two decades since the engagement and I still lament my self for not able to shut down one of these F-15C.
This is the account of Captain Jameel Sayhood :
After I shut downed the Tornado the GCI ordered me to help Captain Qasim Khalaf Hamad who couldn't disengage from 2 F-15Cs ... So I changed my direction according to GCI instructions and I was thinking in my mind should I try to Pull these F-15Cs to the heavily SAM defended areas or should I look for the merge ... The first Idea was not a good idea because I know the capabilities of American BVR since witnessed what happened in the first night .. So I moved closer to them , then suddenly my SPO-15 warned me of a lock so I used my Remora ECM pod to break the lock which was succesful for a while but Then the SPO-15 warned me about 2 incoming missiles , I pulled hard with 9 G and evaded the first one but the second one impacted my aircraft and the RED LIGHTS IN THE COCKPIT went crazy ... I know I had to eject as my plane was disintegrating and in few seconds I was in my Parachute ... The landing was rough ... I tried to stand but there was sharp pain in my Rt. leg ( later I discovered it fractured ) ... I was looking to the crash site of the British Tornado which was only 2 Km from my position ... Then a local people found me and took me in their truck ...
Prvo u vezi sa podvesnim kontejnerima stanice aktivnog ometanja `Remora` franc. proizvodnje
Sa foruma KP
Citat:I have an information said that some of the iraqi mig-29 was modified to carry french Remora Ecm pod in mid of 1990s and one of these was escape to saudi arabia in 1995 but it crash in saudi land neer the border and the pilot killed.
Citat:Sorry, but this with the 9.12B lacking BVR weapons is wrong: it has got the same R-27/AA-10 like the Su-27. It was very much compatible with the R-73/AA-11 too - but these could not be carried by the aircraft at the same time with R-60s. Rather than this, no R-73s and no R-27Ts (IR-variant) were exported to Iraq: instead, Iraqis modified many of their MiG-29s to carry French-made Remora ECM pods (which is one of primary reasons why they lost 'only' 3 of these in 1991, and not 6 as claimed by the USAF).
Svaka cast zaista Iracanima na improvizacijama i modifikacijama,pa oni su imali aktivne ometace poput 9-13 i 9-13S sa Gardenijom .Ugradjivali po 4 lansera APU-470 za 4 rakete R-27R1 sto je izuzetan borbeni potecijal za gadjanje vecih i tromih VC-a sa srednjih daljina .Ovo za R-27T1 i narocito R-73E moramo proveriti .Pogledajmo, njihovi piloti su manevrisali u protiv-raketnim manevrima i pri 9.5g u trajanju nekoliko sek ,sto govori o njihovoj uvezbanosti tj utreniranosti i fizickoj pripremljenosti ( sposobnosti ) .Vidimo da neki na zapadu takodje kazu da su izgubili samo 3 29tke ,Iracani naveli i imena pilota a ne 5 ili 6 kako navode Ameri .
Ovo je takodje interesantno ,imali dakle i 9-12A pored 9-12B i pored Remore neke su modifikovali u `letece cisterne` ???
Citat:The Iraqi AF had version 9.12A and 9.12B ... At time of DS there were 32 9.12A and 7 9.12B plus 4 UB trainers ... But only 29 of the A version were combat ready ... The others ( 10 ) were kept in reserve or modified for tanker purpose ... These Iraqi AF put French Remora ECM pods on them albeit without that success obviously .
Sta se moze zakljuciti ,29tka je odlican lovac i odlican borac kao i piloti koji njom upravljaju ali je to od male koristi ako protivnik tj agresor raspolaze tehnicki modernijim, uopste kvalitetom i kvantitetom superiornijim borbenim sredstvima i sistemima .Vidimo da je ovaj prvi pilot imao problema tokom zahvata zbog veoma snaznog el. ometanja u etru ,upravo ono sto se nasima desevalo 99te .Ovaj drugi sto je imao Remoru nije imao takvih problema.
Sad mozemo da shvatimo koju prednost ima 9-13 u odnosu na 9-12 a tek ove novije verzije da ne govorim .Isto tako je steta ako se ispostavi da iracke 29tke nisu imale R-27T1 i R-73E jer posebno sa ovom prvom su mogli gadjati Amere sa vecih daljina a da ovi nemaju uopste predstavu da su raketirani ,bilo bi tu dosta frke onda .Isto tako ostaje otvoreno pitanje da li su oni imali i NSC` Schelj-3UM` ,ako se ispostavi da nisu imali R-73E ,onda verovatno ni NSC nisu imali ,e to je vec bio pravi hendikep jan. 1991g
PS
Sve ove ispovesti Iracana su suprotne onom sto kazu Jenkiji
pronadjoh nesto vrlo zanimljivo pa pogledajmo tj procitajmo ispovest dva veoma hrabra iracka pilota-lovca kap. Kasima Halafa Hamada i kap. Dzamel Sajhuda.
