Specijalna operacija RF, LNR i DNR u Ukrajini

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Napisano: 15 Apr 2022 9:12

Patrik Lankaster izveštava o civilnim žrtvama u Mariupolju. Nekim žrtvama su ruke bile vezane.

[Link mogu videti samo ulogovani korisnici]

Dopuna: 15 Apr 2022 9:17

- Prema saopštenju MO RF, jedan od dva Mi-8 helikoptera, koji su juče napali selo u okolini Brijanska, oboren je sistemom S-400 u regiji Černigova.

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Ima li vijesti sta su nocas bili ciljevi u Kijevu?

Da li su gadjali "centre odlucivanja" ili samo trafo stanice.

Pratim CNN, ni rijeci jutros o udarima na Kijev, a obicno bi im to bila udarna vijest.

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hyla ::Koliko je isplativo uopšte razmišljati o izvlačenju i ponovnom osposobljavanju jednog ovako velikog broda? Tu ne mislim samo na fizičke probleme podizanja i transporta do brodogradilišta već i zamenu kompletne elektronike, električnih instalacija. Praktično bi trebalo "ostrugati" sve do metala pa ispočetka...
Крстарица "Москва" је поринута пре 40 година.
ПВО брода практично није мењан од поринућа. Имао је системе С-300 и Оса, оба неподесна против БПЛ и нисколетећих ракета. Топови АК-130 и АК-630 су такође старији и превазиђени.

У одржавање није пуно улагано.
Очигледно да нису сматрали да треба улагати још у овај брод.
Сви новији бродови црноморске флотиле су имале доста модернији ПВО.

На броду су постављене новије противбродске ракете, које су намењене дејству по већим бродовима, на већим даљинама. Што је један сценарио који није скоро реалан.

И да није потопљена, "Москва" би вероватно ускоро завршила каријеру.

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Sta ti mislis da im je "centar odlucivanja"? Mogu da bombarduju parlament, i tako neke gluposti, bez ikakvog efekta, tu nema nikoga.

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Gargamel83 ::Sta ti mislis da im je "centar odlucivanja"? Mogu da bombarduju parlament, i tako neke gluposti, bez ikakvog efekta, tu nema nikoga.

Ja ne mislim nista. Ne znam.

Ali zgrada parlamenta nije centar odlucivanja.

Centar odlucivanja bi bio svaki komandni centar, gdje se donose odluke. Ukljuciv i politicke odlluke. I po meni formulacija "centar odlucivanja" se ne odnosi na zgrade i objekte, odnosi se na trenutnu lokaciju komandnog centra.

Aaa, evo ga, sad objavise saopstenje MO RF o nocasnjim ciljevima u KIjevu. Ponavljaju pretnju da ce napadi na Kijev da se povecaju kako odgovor na napade na Rusku teritoriju.

Citat:⚡🇬🇧Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation regarding night strikes on Kiev:

🔻Tonight, high-precision long-range sea-based missiles "Caliber" hit a military facility on the outskirts of KIEV.

🔻As a result of the attack on the Zhulian machine-building plant "Vizar", the workshops for the production and repair of long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as anti-ship missiles, were destroyed.

🔻The number and scale of missile strikes against targets in Kyiv will increase in response to any terrorist attacks or sabotage committed by the Kiev nationalist regime on Russian territory.

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Pa zato te pitam, ko zna gde su oni sad, da je bas tako jednostavno mislim da bi davno to uradili.

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Nije jednostavno ali nije ni nemoguce. Sve se svodi na obavjestajnu pripremu napada.

Ako je odluka da se gadjaju donesena, a izgleda da jeste, onda su meta i onda ih traze. Kad ih nadju, radi se o pet minuta da doleti kalibar.

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Inace izasao tekst da je nato do sada Kijevu posalo toliko pt i manjih pvo sistema da su sami pred nestasicom istih za svoje potrebe. Ako je stvarno tako onda su ruski gubici minimalni.
Takodje kazu da se precenjuje americka mogucnost brzog pravljenja nove minicije i oruzja zbog deindustrijalizacije zemlje.

kraine War Is Depleting America’s Arsenal of Democracy
By Hal Brands | Bloomberg
Yesterday at 5:47 p.m. EDT


America is following an “arsenal of democracy” strategy in Ukraine: It has avoided direct intervention against the Russian invaders, while working with allies and partners to provide the Kyiv government with money and guns.

That strategy, reminiscent of U.S. support for Britain in 1940-41, has worked wonders. Yet as the war reaches a critical stage, with the Russians preparing to consolidate their grip on eastern Ukraine, the arsenal of democracy is being depleted.

That could cause a fatal shortfall for Ukrainian forces in this conflict, and it is revealing American weaknesses that could be laid bare in the next great-power fight.

Of all the support the U.S. and its friends have provided Ukraine, arms have mattered the most. Deliveries of drones, antitank and anti-aircraft weapons, ammunition and other capabilities have helped Ukraine wreak havoc on Russian forces even as Moscow has pummeled the country’s industrial base.

General Mark Milley, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Congress that the West has delivered 60,000 antitank weapons and 25,000 anti-aircraft weapons to Kyiv. The Pentagon is now laying plans to rush additional artillery, coastal defense drones and other materiel to Ukraine. The White House on Wednesday announced a new $800 million package including helicopters and armored personnel carriers.

But President Joe Biden never planned for a war like this. The assumption was that Russia would quickly conquer much of the country, so the U.S. would be supporting a simmering, low-intensity Ukrainian insurgency. Instead, Ukraine’s successful resistance has led to an ongoing, high-intensity conventional fight, with prodigious consumption of munitions and intense attrition of key military assets.

Pentagon officials say that Kyiv is blowing through a week’s worth of deliveries of antitank munitions every day. It is also running short of usable aircraft as Russian airstrikes and combat losses take their toll. Ammunition has become scarce in Mariupol and other areas.

This is presenting Western countries with a stark choice between pouring more supplies into Ukraine or husbanding finite capabilities they may need for their own defense.

Germany has declined to transfer tanks to Ukraine on grounds that it simply cannot spare them. Canada quickly ran short on rocket launchers and other equipment that the Ukrainians desperately need. The U.S. has provided one-third of its overall stockpile of Javelin anti-tank missiles. It cannot easily deliver more without leaving its own armories badly depleted — and it may take months or years to significantly ramp up production.

Before the U.S. entered World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt and his military advisers engaged in intense debates about whether the U.S. should rush weapons to a beleaguered Britain or hang onto them in case America had to defend itself. Biden’s arsenal-of-democracy strategy is reaching a similar inflection point in Ukraine.

Kyiv will require far more Western support to beat back Russian forces gathering in the east, where relatively open terrain is less favorable to the defense. It will also need more sophisticated weapons, such as tanks and aircraft, to deny Russia a decisive advantage — and perhaps take the offensive if Moscow’s eastern offensive falters. Stout Ukrainian resistance has given Kyiv a reasonable chance of winning this war, but the cost of any victory, in equipment no less than lives, will be astounding.

For the same reason, the war in Ukraine is a sobering preview of the problems the U.S. itself would face in a conflict against Russia or China. If forced to go to war in Eastern Europe or the Western Pacific, Washington would spend down its stockpiles of missiles, precision-guided munitions and other critical capabilities in days or weeks. It would probably suffer severe losses of tanks, planes, ships and other assets that are sophisticated, costly and hard to replace.

During World War I, the offensives of 1914 led to “shell famine” as the European combatants exhausted their arsenals. Get ready for “missile famine” if there is a great-power war.

In the world wars of the last century, America’s unmatched manufacturing base ultimately powered it to victory. But today, replenishing the free world’s arsenal might not be so easy.

American economic leadership is no longer based primarily on manufacturing. Shortages of machine tools, skilled labor and spare production capacity could slow a wartime rearmament effort. The U.S. can’t quickly scale up production of Stinger missiles for Ukraine, for example, because the workforce needed to do so no longer exists.

American stockpiles of key weapons are smaller than one might imagine, partly because of production constraints and partly because most of the Pentagon’s roughly $750 billion budget goes to manpower, health care and things other than bullets and bombs. Don’t bet against the world’s leading economy — and all of its democratic allies — in a long war. But don’t think that America would effortlessly produce what it needs to win.

The problem isn’t insoluble. Greater investments in the defense industrial base and more aggressive purchasing and stockpiling of key munitions can help. The creation of a reserve industrial corps (civilians who have basic peacetime training so they can contribute to wartime production) is worth exploring. Key allies, such as Japan, may be able to help the U.S. surge production in shipbuilding and other areas.

Small wars typically preview what is to come in bigger wars. The Ukraine conflict is showing what it will take to keep the arsenal of democracy equal to the task.

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Arsenije ::...Ali ok, ako neko misli da je važnija "bitka svih bitaka" u Donbasu ili gubitak one krntije - čamca, od globalnog finansijskog prestrukturiranja sveta, koji je uveliko u toku, onda je to samo dokaz da mnogi od jednog drveta ne vide šumu.
Neće biti nikakvog ''prestrukturiranja sveta'' ako onaj koji ga je započeo krajem februara ne ostvari svoje ciljeve u UKR u bliskom narednom periodu. Niko neće stati uz gubitnika, niko neće stati uz onoga koji ni u svom komšiluku nije u stanju da bude glavni...a kamoli da zajedno sa njim osniva/vodi nekakav novi svet.

Sa svakom narednom nedeljom će slabiti prećutna podrška Rusiji od strane drugih bitnih država, jer će se one zapitati šta to podržavaju (i time rizikuju određene mere protiv njih), koju to snagu, koju to pokazanu sposobnost podržavaju...

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Napisano: 15 Apr 2022 9:42

Ako je tacna ova prica o mogucnostima amerike oko isporuke oruzja onda moze biti mnogo zanimljivije od Ukrajine.
Inace neverovatna kolicina je poslata Kijevu. Ovo su sulude broje pt i manjih pvo sistema. Nisu Rusi imali velike gubitke kada se ovo uzme u obzir.

Dopuna: 15 Apr 2022 9:53

Takodje posle ovih neverovatnih brojki naoruzanja poslatog Kijevu mnogo vise ubedjen da je Moskva pogodjena necim sa zapada. A da Rusi i Ameri nece da eksaliraju pa to precutkuju jer su izvestaji Pentagono isto cudni.