Ranije se to pominjalo i bilo komentara u vezi toga ...
Citat:The story of 019 Tu 160 Blackjack from Ukraine could have been a little more complex . The U.S. had a strong interest in preventing the 019 Tu 160 were delivered to Russia, but the highest concern was not with Russia already had a large arsenal with strategic weapons, but from China.
The possible sale of 019 Tu 160 and more than 1000 cruise missile Kh 55 for China without nukes due to international treaties, give it a capability to alter the strategic balance of forces after the end of the Soviet Union.
As it also was not in the interest of Russia, and in this case concluded that it would be better to work with the U.S. to avoid the worst case scenario that could be to see the Tu 160 in China.
I heard or read a long time ago about rumors said that China would not only be interested in buying equipment such as Tu 160 supersonic bombers and Kh 55 missiles, or even the Tu 22M3 Backfire long range attack aircraft and AS 4 Kitchen tactical missiles. But also in buying or enter as partners in several Ukraine's high-tech military companies, which in the age of the Soviet Union had established the second largest industrial military from Soviet Union, behind only Russia.
With the financial crisis in Russia and the Ukraine after the end of the Soviet Union during the 90’s, as result consequence for the military industries from Ukraine were in crisis too.
The Ukraine eventually accepted an agreement with the U.S. in 1999 which would scrape all Tu 160 and Tu 95MS as the Kh 55 cruise missiles, in addition of Tu 22M2 and Tu 22M3 and AS 4 tactical missiles would not be trade in and would be scrape too in near future .And with Russia, the Ukraine would sell this 08 Tu 160 Blackjack and 03 Tu 95MS Sprut in addition of 575 Kh 55 cruise missiles.
At the time of the 1999 China was the only 6th in the world economy rank, and Ukraine government could had pondered that a deal, about the Tu 160 Blackjack with China and the partnership with Ukraine companies, this would be advantageous since it could dry up all sources of finance of Ukraine with the U.S. and other economic powers.
Ipak je to vise bila propaganda nego stvarne mogucnosti, bolje receno uopste namere NRK da kupi `B.labudove` .Zapravo je bio samo trik Amera da ih ovi u saradnji sa Ukrajincima uniste a da se ne vrate Rusima .
Kad samo pomenuo ovo da su labudovi trebali biti vraceni ( ozvaniceno ) ,mislio sam na ovo
Citat:At the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, Soviet nuclear weapons were deployed in four of the new republics: Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan. In May 1992, these four states signed the Lisbon Protocol, agreeing to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, with Russia the successor to the Soviet Union as a nuclear state, and the other three states joining as non-nuclear states.
Ukraine agreed to give up its weapons to Russia, in exchange for guarantees of Ukrainian territory from Russia, the UK and the USA, known as the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. China and France also made statements in support of the memorandum.
Citat:The Lisbon Protocol to the 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty was an agreement by representatives of Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan that all nuclear weapons of the former Soviet Union on the soil of those four states would be destroyed or transferred to the control of Russia. All four states agreed to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, with Russia the successor to the Soviet Union as a nuclear state, and the other three states joining as non-nuclear states. The protocol was signed in Lisbon, Portugal, on May 23, 1992.Like Kazakhstan, Ukraine eventually agreed to surrender its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees, military aid, financial assistance, and compensation from the United States and Russia. Implementation of the Lisbon Protocol was complete when both Belarus and Ukraine had surrendered their nuclear weapons to Russia by the end of 1996.
Nema to veze sa NRK ,istina je da su Belorusija i Kazahstan ispostovale potpisani Protokol ali Ukrajina nije ,naravno na nagovor Amera i iz svojih licnih anti-ruskih interesa .Tu-160 su znaci trebali biti vraceni Rusiji kao i Tu-95MS-6/-16 ( 23 kom ) ali nisu nego su uz planirano odugovlacenje i provokacije cekali dogovoreni momenat kad ce uskociti Ameri i unistiti dobar deo ruskog moguceg strateskog arsenala .Provokacije su bile u smislu pretnji da ce avioni biti oboreni ako Ruje pokusaju da ih sa svojim posadama vrate u RF sto su ovi cinili nakon 1992g.
I sta su Ameri tacnije njihov predsednik pomenuo te 1992 u pismima tadasnjim predsednicima obavezujucih drzava ( pominje se samo unistenje nukl. oruzja a ne povrat Rusiji ) .
Evo sta pise o odredbi za Ukrajinu
Citat:Ukraine shall guarantee the elimination of all nuclear weapons, including
strategic offensive arms, located in its territory in accordance with the relevant
agreements and during the seven-year period as provided by the START Treaty
and within the context of the Statement of the Non-Nuclear Status of Ukraine.
Znaci Ukrajina je od 1992-99 kao trebala da unisti nukl.arsenal na svojoj teritoriji navodno u skladu sa START a to je suprotno onom sto je dogovorila sa RF .Zapravo ni to nije ispostovano i Tu-160 nisu ni unisteni po tom planu vec znamo tek kasnije opet po americkom planu i kroz program `Nunn-Lugar`.
Jasno kao dan ko je odigrao kljucnu ulogu u unistavanju sovjetskog /ruskog nukl. arsenala koji se zatekao van teritorije RF a posebno u prici oko labudova .
Ajd sto je jasno sta su smerali Ameri i Ukrajinci nego sta su Rusi radili ??? Sta su i mogli pored one pijane lude ,generali VVS posebno u DA jesu bili za povrat to je sigurno ,sta je to vredelo kad su Rusiju tih godina vodili politicari i diplomate -izdajnici, nista drugo ...
Da se malo nadovezem na ovu pricu ... Naime poznat je dogovor postignut 1992 izmedju Jelcinja i Busa o zaustavljanu proizvodnje Tu-160 ( njegova kvota u START koji je potpisan godinu ranije a ratifikovan malo kasnije ) je bila do 20 kom ,jednostavno zato sto je tada bilo toliko serijski izradjenih aviona ( onih u AB Priluki-Ukr ) .Jelcinj potpisuje dekret o zaustavljanju proizvodnje dok Ameri tih godina rade na ser. proizivodnji njegovog pandana B-2A ( dakle nije B-1B ) i dogurali su do 21 kom ( 16 su bili nukl. nosaci ,nosaci ABG po START I ) .Ruje u ocekivanju da se avioni vrate iz Ukrajine vide da su prevareni ( Ukrajina namerno ne vraca avione iz Prilukija ) i zatim krecu sa nastavkom ser.proizvodnje odmah nakon 1992 ( do 1996 vec je 6 serijskih aviona u AB Engeljs ) .Znaci iako je Jelcinji licno garantovao i naredio da ser. izrade vise nece biti ,nje je bilo zbog toga sto avioni nisu vraceni iz Ukrajine .Cak su i mnogobrojni pokusaji nabavke putem kupovine propali ( sto je deo smisljene amer-ukr. anti-ruske politike ) .
Jubilej..
Citat:Испытания
Первый полёт опытного образца (под обозначением «70-01») состоялся 18 декабря 1981 года на аэродроме «Раменское».
Полёт выполнял экипаж во главе с лётчиком-испытателем Борисом Веремеем. Второй прототип самолёта (изделие «70-02») использовался для статических испытаний и не летал. Позднее к испытаниям присоединился второй лётный образец самолёта под обозначением «70-03». Самолёты «70-01», «70-02» и «70-03» построены на ММЗ «Опыт».
Первый полет прототипа (изделие 70-01) - 18 декабря 1981 г. (экипаж Б.И.Веремея, второй пилот С.Т.Агапов, штурманы - М.М.Козел, А.В.Еременко).
Evo nekih paralela izmedju `B.labuda` i `duha` ...
Citat:The Tupolev Tu-160 Blackjack supersonic strategic bomber made its combat debut yesterday as the Russian air force struck Daesh targets across Syria.
The Blackjack—which the Russians have nicknamed the “White Swan” due to its white anti-flash paint scheme and slender design—was the last strategic bomber ever developed by the Soviet Union. Though modern Russia has adapted the powerful long-range supersonic bomber for the conventional role, its original mission was to deliver a thermonuclear payload to the United States should the Cold War have turned hot. Effectively, it is Russia’s answer to the stealthy Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit—the last American Cold War-era strategic bomber.
While the B-2 is relies on stealth—the Tu-160 relies on a combination of blistering speed and long-range standoff cruise missiles to deliver its payload. The Blackjack can sustain speeds of Mach 2.05 with its four massive Kuznetsov NK-32 afterburning turbofans, which provide 55,000lbs of thrust each at maximum power. However, operational Blackjacks are currently restricted to about Mach 1.5 in order to save airframe life.
The basic concept behind the Tu-160 is to use its speed to move into launch position quick and disgorge its cruise missiles before the enemy can react. Indeed, U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy pilots told me that intercepting a high flying and fast flying target at Mach 2.0 or more is extremely difficult even for a high performance fighter like the F-15C Eagle.
While the Tu-160 is the Russian answer to the American B-2, the aircraft was designed to operate using a completely different concept of operations. The B-2 was designed to penetrate deep into enemy airspace—the Blackjack was always designed as a standoff launch platform. It’s not a direct equivalent.
With a stealth aircraft, the platform is extremely expensive while the munitions can be cheaper. With a standoff platform, the aircraft is less expensive while the weapons have to be much more sophisticated. Both are effective methods to deliver weapons on target. Hopefully, we will never find out which is a better nuclear delivery method.
Iz teksta sa naslovom
The Russian Air Force's Super Bomber: Beware the Supersonic Tu-160
Ako sam dobro shvatio nadimak `Beli labud` je nastao u reziji novinara a ne pilota tj clanova neke posade .Za Ukrajinu znamo detalje i to je manje vise sve poznato ...e sad ovo na kraju u vezi toaleta, izgleda je bila neka dobra sala ...
Ako sam dobro shvatio nadimak `Beli labud` je nastao u reziji novinara a ne pilota tj clanova neke posade .Za Ukrajinu znamo detalje i to je manje vise sve poznato ...e sad ovo na kraju u vezi toaleta, izgleda je bila neka dobra sala ...
Илија Муромец је био богатир,значи ВИТЕЗ,и тако је ваљда требао авион да се зове,али испао је Бели Лабуд
Ово око тоалета...прво је водитељ питао да ли постоји место за одмор током дугих летова
Генерал је рекао да није бог зна шта...надувају душек па спавају на патосу...
Потом га водитељ пита:ваљда има тоалет?!
Генерал каже да има тоалет,али да су "небеса изгубила на моћи" од када су у авионе почели да стављају "клоње"....
Зато су почели да називају авионе "летећа гуска(болничка)"...или нешто слично томе....
(милим да сам убо суштину око ове шале)
Cek tako je nazvan jedan ( mada su bila 2 Bort-a sa tim imenom 1995g i to 05 i 06 crveni ) dakle naziv jednog Bort a ne naziv aviona onako `u globalu`.General cini mi se rece da su upravo novinari prozvali Tu-160 `Belim labudom` je li tako ? Kad je pomenuo Ilju Muromeca voditelj je asocirao na prvog teskog /strateskog cetveromotornog bombardera u istoriji vojne avijacije, Sikorski S-22 iz 1913g
A Ilja ( Ilija ) Muromec ,o njemu ima ovo,onako ukratko ...
Citat:Илија Муромец (рус. Илья́ Му́ромец, укр. Ілля Муровець, буквално: „Илија од Мурома“) је кијевски руски митски јунак, православни светитељ, и монах кијевопечерски. Опеван је у бројним народним епским песама. Уз Добрињу Никитича и Аљошу Поповича сматра се највећим средњовековним руским витезом и пустоловом. У руској митологији познати су као Три богатира.
Nego ako neko moze malo da prevede komentar o poredjenju Tu-160 i B-1B ....general je takodje pojasnio da nove KR H-102 imaju maks. daljinu dejstva 4500km a kad se uzme u obzir `daljnost poleta ` tj dolet Tu-160, to je ukupno 16000km daljina na kojoj moze da se dovede 12 `termonuklearki` ,svaka po 200kt.
General je dao jedan pogresan podatak, naime u Ukr. nije unisteno 20 vec 30 strateskih raketonosaca ( oni ipak nisu bombarderi vec nosaci strateskih KR ) i to 10 Tu-160 i 20 Tu-95MS.Pominjalo se 24 i 25 `MS` ,kako god 3 su vracena(20 izrezano i 1 u poltavskom vazd. muzeju ) sa 8 Tu-160 ( 10 izrezano i 1 u polstavksom vazd. muzeju)
Citat:29 December 1995
FORMER SOVIET BOMBERS WILL BE RETURNED TO RUSSIA
It was reported that 19 TU-160s and 24 TU-95 strategic bombers will be transferred from Ukraine to Russia in
return for spare parts, technical documentation, and technical aviation services for Ukraine
Citat:28 March 1995
RUSSIA WILL FORGIVE UKRAINE'S GAS DEBT IN EXCHANGE FOR HEAVY BOMBERS
Russia will forgive Ukraine's $192.6 million natural gas debt in exchange for the 19 TU-160 supersonic jets and the
25 TU-95MS turbo-prop missile carrying aircraft that Ukraine has on its territory.
i jedan zanimljiv detalj
Citat:
26 August 1999
AGREEMENT ON SALE OF 10 STRATEGIC BOMBERS COMPLETED
Russian Prime Minister Putin, however, expressed doubts about whether or not Russia actually needs the bombers.
Генерал каже да је тај назив "Бели Лабуд" на неки начин погрдан и каже да су то новинари дали,да то није надимак који су могли дати пилоти...
А да су они на ћирилици за 50 година победе,написали Илија Муромец,име који је носио Руски витез и тај стари "Сикорски"....
Генерал је иначе учествовао у развоју ТУ 160 па му изгледа додатно тешко пало то што највећи стратешки ракетоносац који носи 12 нуклеарних ракета зову "Бели Лабуд"...
Генерал:твој брат новинар је дао тај назив(педерски,вероватно,по генералу... )
Водитељ:новинари кажу да су га дали пилоти из љубави према авиону...
Генерал се не слаже....
пс
Мислим да је мање више то то...
Вероватно би "Сириус",ако прочита могао боље да растумачи...ја сам мало зарђао
)
