Chengdu J-10

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Meni se čini da sa FN na kraju prodju skuplje kad se uračunaju svi troškovi. Kraći životni vek, ranije mora na remont...

Pratili ste valjda razvoj događaja prethodnih godina. Ilegalne kopije Su-27/30 pošto Rusi nisu hteli da prodaju napredniju tehnologiju Kinezi su prestali da uvoze avioniku i radar vec samo motore, a i njih ne bi da ne moraju. Onda ona smešna priča sa Su-33 kad su tražili samo 2 pa da se odluče da li će ih naručiti u većem broju. A ponovno pokretanje proizvodnje zahteva, ako se dobro sećam, barem 24 aviona...

Da me je neko pitao pre tri/cetiri godine ko ce raditi na T-50 sa Rusima ja bih ko iz topa rekao Kinezi. Recimo Indija mi ne bi ni pala na pamet.

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Savremeni motori klase >100kN su Kinezima imperativ, bez njih nema daljeg razvoja J-10, J-11, J-15, J-20.
Nije problem da motore naprave, vec je problem kvalitet, koji je los. Komponente dolaze od raznih proizvodjaca, koji jos uvek nemaju identicne standarde kvaliteta. Za normalizaciju proizvodnje bice im potrebno jos 3-5 godina.
U protivnom - uvek ce biti zavisni od Rusa i nece moci samostalno da nastupe na svetskom trzistu (tj. nece moci da igraju globalnu ulogu).
Ono sto mi je interesantno je: zasto Kinezi nisu probali da kupe nekog proizvodjaca motora u proteklom periodu, deo ili u potpunosti? Zapadni su dostupni preko berze, istocni su bili proteklih 10-15 godina u krizi...

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Ne tako skoro Kinezi su uspeli da ugovore proizvodnju nekog americkog komercijalnog motora u Kini. Reagovao je Kongres i zabranio kooperaciju jer taj motor koristi dosta tehnologije koja se ugradjuje u F404.

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J10B FLEW AGAIN TODAY (8.6)





credits houshangahi









j10b flew yesterday aswell

credits houshangahi

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How many prototypes of the J-10B exist?

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Napisano: 06 Aug 2011 17:59

there are around 3 prototypes 1 is in chengdu , the other 2 are worked by pakistani and chinese teams away from media
total number of prototypes might be more





by dieno sinodefence forum;
the latest order of al31 will be most likely for the first Block 07 J-10B (on regiment for the PLAAF + the PAF-order) and after that - if the test with 05 are promising - Block 08 "could" be powered by the WS-10A.






from IDF forum;
J-10 is a very potent aircraft. In 2006, in it's most primitive form it was pitted against Su-27SK in a PLAAF exercise, the J-10 finsished with flying colours, killing all enemies without even being detected!
4:0 to the J-10 and not J-10A either!
In 2009 J-10A (upgraded air dominance variant) beat the J-11A 13:1!!!
Given that the J-11A has beaten the Su-30MKK/MK2, J-10A is currently PLAAF's best operational plane for A2A engagements.

and of course most recently a PLAAF J-10A intercepted a Vietnamese Su-30MKV, the J-10 locked on to the Su-30MKV 10 times.
Expect the J-10B to do big things






by s10 in pdf forum ;
J-10 vs Su-27SK 4:0
J-10 vs J-11/A 13:1
J-11 vs Su-30MKK 5:1
J-10 vs Su-30MkV 1:0

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Nesto mi je to neverovatno da Su-30 ne moze da otkrije J-10. Ne verujem da je njegov RCS bas tako mali. Plus SU-30 ima pasivni IC sistem otkrivanja.

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Napisano: 07 Avg 2011 0:55

@ANTIBODY

According to your story J-10 is better BVR fighter than J-11A and SU-30MKK.
I have assumed that because you said : "killing all enemies without even being detected"

What about WVR?

Do you have some real information to back up your claims?

Citat:and of course most recently a PLAAF J-10A intercepted a Vietnamese Su-30MKV, the J-10 locked on to the Su-30MKV 10 times, without the MKV even knowing he was there

So we can assume that SU-30MKV doesn`t have RWR if it was radar lock or sukhoi was locked with IRST (Hongguang-I).

How do they know MKV wasn`t aware he was tracked if it was radar lock, and another way around , how J-10 know`s he wasn`t being tracked if MKV used OLS?

Dopuna: 07 Avg 2011 1:18

zixo ::Nesto mi je to neverovatno da Su-30 ne moze da otkrije J-10. Ne verujem da je njegov RCS bas tako mali. Plus SU-30 ima pasivni IC sistem otkrivanja.

Izjave tog tipa su u najmanju ruku kontraverzne!
J-10 nije toliko mali avion, koji nije steltno oblikovan, a ako tome dodamo i podvesno naoruzanje, situacija da ne bude detektovan od strane MKK ili J-11 je malo verovatna.
A mislim da ne bi bio dobar marketinski potez da se kaze da je suhoj u stanju da parira domacoj letelici

Slucaj sa Vijetnamskim MKV je moguc samo ako je doslo do pasivnog "zahvata" cilja, sto ne znaci da i MKV nije pratio J-10 sa svojim OLS-om.
U slucaju da se koristio radar, sumnjam da RWR na suski ne bi detektovao zracenje.
Jedina varijanta da J-10 prati MKV, a da ovaj to ne primeti je otpozadi i sa IRST-om ili ako je J-10 bio nisko na fonu zemlje.

Treba uzeti okolnosti pod kojima se dogadjaj desio, jer su isto tako i suhoji mogli biti u niskom letu ili iza J-10, pa bi situacija bila obrnuta.

Mnogo je nezahvalno davati procene na osnovu jedne situacije koja uprincipu nije bila "borbenog" karaktera.

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Citat:Given that the J-11A has beaten the Su-30MKK/MK2, J-10A is currently PLAAF's best operational plane for A2A engagements.

No it is not.

In exercise (one on one) they dont carry additional fuel tanks. In real life only Suhkoi doesnt carry additional fuel tank.

In exercise each missile lock is consider a kill. In real life aircrafts are dodging missiles.

Su-30 in real life (air superiority configuration):




J-10A in real life:



Four fuselage hard points are for short weapons only. So we can see J-10A carries only two BVR missiles in configuration where its range is useful for large country (which China is).

On other hand Chinese Su-30MKK carries six BVR missiles and still have better range then J-10 in configuration with three tanks.

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Napisano: 07 Aug 2011 2:01

the info that ive posted is from chinese friends -- they also provided me links of ''papu'' is as authentic as it gets -- these are chinese mainland forums

the actual hardpoints on j10b are rumoured to be more [2 extra] aswell as dual launching rails post by me in the jf17 thread


J-11 vs Su-30MKK 5:1
by seigecrossbow of cdf forum
The fight against the MKK was not a mock airfight. What happened was that the Su-30s, primarily used by the PLAAF and PLANAF for ground attack, were simulating a loaded strike against the command base and the J-10s were supposed to intercept them. One of the Su-30s piloted by China's best Su-30s escaped. The military actually ruled in the Su-30 pilots' favor since one of the planes got away and could potentially have destroyed the command post.
j10>j10a>j10b


j10



Dopuna: 07 Aug 2011 2:36

sivisoko ::



According to your story J-10 is better BVR fighter than J-11A and SU-30MKK.


this is not my story -- these stats are from chinese posters in english forums who get this info from several thinktanks in chinese language forums and then post the info in english forums

pappu
hiutong
huzhigeng are chinese thinktanks and insiders at CAC