F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

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Može da ponese 4 AIM-120 unutra ili 2 AIM-120 i 2 AIM-9. A evo pa proceni koliko može uz nosače na krilima.

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Moje pitanje je bilo iskljucivo koliko moze ponijeti unutra jer ako F35 bude natrpan na nosace vani to ce jedino biti protiv aviona sa slabijim radarom jer koliko sam ja razumeo u slucaju kad se postave nosavi i rakete onda odmah mu je rcs odmah 3m/2 to je opet manje od rcsa Su27 npr ili F15tice ali opet onda F35 nije stelt.

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Leonardo ::Može da ponese 4 AIM-120 unutra ili 2 AIM-120 i 2 AIM-9. A evo pa proceni koliko može uz nosače na krilima.




Nešto je mnogo "musav" odozdo...a nov avion...

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Raptor1 ::Napisano: 03 Dec 2014 18:47

U slucaju da F35 leti samo sa V-V raketama koliko on raketa bi on mogao nositi ?

Dopuna: 03 Dec 2014 18:55

U slucaju da se nasuprot F35 nalazi SU35 .... Oce li biti u mogucnosti F35tica da salje svoja 2 AIM120, i full gas nazad a da SU35 uopste nema mogucnost napadati ga..

Moze da nosi cetiri AIM-120 u cisto lovackoj konfiguraciji. Lokid predlaze da se preprave nosaci pa bi mogao da nosi sest ali to nije za sad bitno Amerima a verujem da bi to dovelo do komplikacija sa nosenjem drugog naoruzanja.

Inace AIM-120 nece jos dugo biti jedina radarska raketa, trebao bi da dobije Meteor a sami Ameri rade na svom meteoru tkz. T3 raketi (zamenjuje i HARM). Lokid ima privatni projekat CUDA, ta mala raketa bi imala slican domet ko AIM-120 ali bi bila daleko okretnija (da bi kompenzovala malu bojevu glavu).

Mogao bi da ponese 12 CUDA raketa, sto je priznaces nepotrebno ali ce sigurno kombinovati CUDA i neko drugo naoruzanje. Danas ako nosi V-Z sredstva moze da nosi samo dva AIM-120 sto se mnogima ne svidja. Ovako bi mogao da nosi cetiri rakete plus 2 jdam/jsow ili 8 sdb.

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Sto se brzine tice, Ameri kazu daj e 1.6macha dovoljno jer to je brzina koju F35 ima kad je pun ...Barem tako sam citao, dok sami kazu za F15 u koji su se do juce kunili da obori sve i svasta kad je pod punom opremom moze razviti samo 1.5macha a na temu Virtuelni dogfight mislim da sam procitao podatak da na odredjenu visinu F/A-18 ne moze letjeti vise od 1 macha ...


Evo ga jedan tekst o F35 .... Posto nije proslo mnogo vremena odkad sam poceo da vise citam o borbenim avionima recite mi jeli su ovi podaci ispravni

"
Speed: they say that at Mach 1.6+ its too slow even for fighters 60 years ago.

What they dont understand is that all those 4th gens and some 3rd gens that can reach Mach 2, can only do so when totally unarmed. Even the F-15, the fastest 4th gen air superiority fighter, struggles to reach Mach 1.5 when armed.

The F-35 has been tested to Mach 1.6+ when armed internally.

Maneuverability: A lot of people site simple wing loading calculations and draw a conclusion that the F-35 cannot maneuver due to it's high wing loading.

However this is too simplistic and just flat out wrong.

Wing loading is no longer an accurate barometer of maneuverability simply because modern aircraft designs don't rely on just their wings for lift. Lift is essential for maneuverability.

Simple wing loading calculations were relevant when fighters were simply tubes with wings and all the lift came from the wings, they were either cylindrical tubes or rectangular tubes.(F-4, Mig-19, Mig-21, F- the slender tube shaped fuselages were not designed to produce lift.

The wide and smooth body of modern designs (F-15, F-16, F/A-18, F-22,F-35) act as large lifting surfaces distributing the load away from the wings.

On unstable wing/tail designs like the F-16, F-22 and F-35, the tail also produces a substantial amount of lift due to the aircraft's center of gravity being located aft of the fuselage section. This is only true for unstable wing and tail designs. For stable designs like the F-15 and Mig-29, the tail does not produce any lift.

Also, surfaces like the Chines or LERX (leading edge root extensions) produce powerful vortices when the aircraft turns increasing the lift and decreasing the wing loading when in a turn.

And when compared to modern designs, the F-35's wing loading isn't really bad.

Wing Loading of various fighters when loaded with 8,000 lbs, typical dogfighting weight:
Mig-29 M/M2: 91
F-16C (block 50): 90
F-35A: 81
F/A-18C: 77
Su-30MKI: 72

One of the requirements for F-35 was simply to match the F-16 in high sustained G performance.
To do this, the F-35's thrust to weight ratio and wing loading characteristics are similar or better than a Viper when loaded for combat.

Here we will compare it to an F-16 Block 50, which was built in the 90s and is still in production today
(F-16IQ). It is a vast improvement over the 1970s F-16A block 5 and has reportedly been able to hold its own against more modern aircraft in a dogfight.

Wing loading = total weight divided by wing area
thrust to weight = total thrust divided by total weight.

Typical Air-Air load.

F-16C (block 50)
Empty: 18,900 lbs
Load: 8,000 lbs (6,000lbs of fuel + 6 missiles)
Combat Weight: 26,900 lbs
Wing Area: 300 feet
Thrust: 28,600 lbs

Wing loading: 89.66 lbs / square feet
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 1.06

________________________________________________________

F-35A
Empty: 29,300 lbs
Load: 11,000 lbs (9,000lbs of fuel + 6 missiles)
Combat Weight: 40,300 lbs
Wing Area: 460 feet
Thrust: 43,000 lbs

Wing loading: 87.60 lbs / square feet
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 1.06

Even when loaded with 50% more fuel than the F-16, the F-35's wing loading is still better.
Its thrust to weight ratio is identical to the Block 50 which is arguably the best maneuvering version of the F-16.

Furthermore it will not have any of the F-16's parasitic drag due to external weapons carriage.

another measure of agility is an aircrafts capability to execute high Angle of attack (AOA) maneuvers, to point the nose away from the aircraft's flight path vector (direction of where it is actually going).

Amongst 4th gen fighters, the American F/A-18 and Soviet designed Su-27 reigned supreme in this arena.

Another requirement for the F-35 was to match the F/A-18 in high AOA performance.

To do this the F-35 has a chined forward fuselage that produces powerful vortices at high angles of attack. The engine cowls are also designed to produce vortex lift acting like the F/A-18's LERX surfaces.

Its flight control software's AOA limit is 50 degrees and has been tested to 73 degrees with ease, most fighters like the Typhoon and Rafale are limited to around 25 degrees,

the F-35 on the other hand is notoriously difficult to depart and extremely easy to put back in controlled flight if ever it does depart. So "if", or should I say "when" the F-35 finds its self needing maneuverability, it will have plenty to go around

Pilots who have flown the F-35 are reportedly very impressed with the F-35's Kinematic performance. here is one such pilot, an evaluator who's job is to throughly scrutinize aircraft.

[Link mogu videti samo ulogovani korisnici]

According to him "[the F-35 is] Borrowing some of the best features of the F-16, F-18, A-10, and the hovering Marine Corps Harrier, the F-35 is fast, stealthy, and packs a punch.

"Fantastic to fly, very powerful, very maneuverable, easy to handle," Lt. Col O'Malley said."

And as you can see by the data above. The claim is not farfetched at all.

but all this performance is just the icing on the cake. The F-35's true strength lies in its software and integrated sensors that gives the pilot everything he needs to know.

If knowing is winning half the battle, then the F-35 will always begin the fight half won already"

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Citat:A Marine F-35B Lightning II from the Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 501 rolls by the 33rd Fighter Wing hot pit refueling area as two F-35As receive fuel at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla. All of the F-35 variants use the refueling areas in conjunction with the 96th Logistics Readiness Squadron’s fuels flight. (U.S. Air Force photo by Samuel King Jr./Released)

F-35 engine inspection requirements eased to 13 hours -Pentagon

Citat:Mandatory engine inspections are now required every 13 hours for Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter jets, a significant easing of the three-hour requirement imposed after an engine failure in June temporarily grounded the entire fleet, a top Pentagon official said on Wednesday.

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Citat:An F-35B Lightning II is prepped for flight at MCAS Yuma, Arizona.
Photo by Michael D. Jackson

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Raptor1 ::Sto se brzine tice, Ameri kazu daj e 1.6macha dovoljno jer to je brzina koju F35 ima kad je pun ...Barem tako sam citao, dok sami kazu za F15 u koji su se do juce kunili da obori sve i svasta kad je pod punom opremom moze razviti samo 1.5macha a na temu Virtuelni dogfight mislim da sam procitao podatak da na odredjenu visinu F/A-18 ne moze letjeti vise od 1 macha ...


Evo ga jedan tekst o F35 .... Posto nije proslo mnogo vremena odkad sam poceo da vise citam o borbenim avionima recite mi jeli su ovi podaci ispravni

Sto se tice max brzine, tu postoje neke zackoljice.
Vrlo je bitno objektivno uporedjivati avione ne samo kada je rec o max brzini vec i o ostalim letnim karakteristikama.

F-35 za sada moze da nosi samo 4 AIM-120 u lovackoj konfiguraciji.
Smesno je pomisliti da F-15 sa 4 AIM-120 ne moze da razvije vise od 1,5M. To se da lako proveriti preko Flight Manuel-a gde postoje koeficijenti otpora za sva ubojna sredstva koje moze da ponese.
U nekoj drugoj konfiguraciji bi F-15 sigurno imao poteskoca da dostigne tu brzinu, ali kao sto sam i rekao treba biti objektivan.
Takodje u obzir treba uzeti i vreme koje je potrebno avionu da dostigne tu brzinu, sto je od velike vaznosti. Lovci kao sto su F-15, EF2000, Su-35S itd. bi "pojeli za dorucak" F-35 u ovom segmentu u toj konfiguraciji.
F-35 na testovima nije ispunio ocekivanja sto se tice transonicnog i supersonicnog ubrzanja, a rezultati su ispod onih koje su postavili recimo F-16 ili F-18.

Sto se tice manevribilnosti dosta stvari koje su izrecene u tekstu stoje, ali opet treba biti maksimalno objektivan.
Parametri koji se spominju nisu dovoljni da bi se stekla prava predstava o tome koliko je neki avion agilan. F-35 jeste moderan dizajn, ali je takodje u odredjenoj meri, kao i svaki drugi stelt avion i kompromis izmedju aerodinamike i stelta.
Kod aviona cetvrte generacije se nastojalo da se dodje do najboljih aerodinamickih resenja za dati tip letelice dok stelt avion mora da pravi odredjene ustupke.
Takodje nije tacno da je F-16Block 50 najmanevribilnija varijanta tog aviona. F-16Block 30 je daleko bolji u ovom segmentu sto znaci da ce F-35 imati objektivnih poteskoca da dominira jedan solidan avion 4 generacije u bliskoj manevarskoj borbi.
Opet treba uzeti u obzir sa koliko projektila ce u realnim situacijama avioni uci u dog fajt. Realno, danas avioni nose od dva do cetiri projektila kratkog dometa. Kada se oni nalaze na vrhovima krila uglavnom nema povecanja koeficijenta otpora a ako se radi o teskim avionima lovcima kao sto su F-15 ili Su-27 povecanje otpora nije toliko da bi moglo iole drasticnije da pogorsa letne karakteristike aviona. Manji avioni lovci vise "pate" kada se na njih postavi naoruzanje.

Sto se tice leta na vecim napadnim uglovima tu nema sumnje da je F-35 vrlo dobar avion, u rangu sa F-18, ali ako se uporedi sa avionima kao sto su F-22, Su-35S, PAK FA itd. on zaista nije u toj klasi, a videli smo da avioni kao sto su Rafal ili EF2000 mogu da se nose sa F-22 iako nemaju mogucnost prelazenja napadnih uglova mnogo vise od 30° (ne 25° kako je receno u tekstu).
Na snimku simulirane vazdusne borbe izmedju F-22 i Rafala vidi se da francuski avion nema nikakvih problema da izadje na 30° AoA.

Sve u svemu, moze se reci da je F-35 jedan prosecan avion sto se tice letnih karakteristika i da je realno ispod nivoa najmodernjih lovaca 4++ i pete generacije sto se tice bliske manevarske borbe.
Naravno, on ima druge prednosti koje su takodje bitne za celokupnu sliku borbe u vazduhu, ali to je vec neka druga tema.
Eto toliko u najkracim crtama.

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Tekst je prevod sa ruskog i čak i neke fraze i reči su izvorno prepisane, ali govori o tome da i u nevidljivosti, ova F-35-ca nije najsjajnija:

[Link mogu videti samo ulogovani korisnici]

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Nemam flighit manuale i praktične aerodinamike za F-16C block 50 ali što se tiče F-16 block 30 maksimalna brzina u konfiguraciji 2xAIM-120 i 2XAIM-9 je 1,8 maha bez podtrupnog rezervoara za gorivo a sa podtrupnim rezervoarom je 1,6 maha. Što se tiče manevarskih osoibina F-35 je sasvim sigurno slabiji i od aviona 4 generacije a da ne pričamo o avionima 4+ ili 4++.