Kineske vazduhoplovne snage

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za nis - pa ako imaju svoje ljude u vladi koji rade protiv svoje drzave ne treba im ni dati nis. ne krivim ja ruse, njima je u interesu da kupe sto jeftinije, ali to ne znaci da treba leci na rudu i nasesti na forsiranja njihovog lobija.

koliko staje radar i elektronika? to nam reci ti, znamo koliko kosta kod rusa remont motora i zmaja - 5 mil po avionu, skoro kao ceo mirage 2000c (100/12=8,3 mil $). ako isto toliko kosta i kod francuza - naravno ako treba da se radi, eto cena od 13 mil po avionu. uz novi radar i rakete, cena ce dostici cenu jf-17.

"jurisni" jf-17 bez radara, pa onda "lovac-bombarder" - izvini, ali ti si rekao da treba uzeti avion bez radara. sad se izvlacis "kao" radar za pracenje terena se podrazumeva. koji radar za pracenje terena pitam se? ruski, kineski? jel ti znas jedan da navedes? koliko on kosta? isplati li se to raditi?

tako je, umesto jf-17 "sa i bez radara" bih u svako doba uzeo modernizovani mirage 2000 ili mig-29 i su-25. su-25 koristi motor bez dodatnog sagorevanja sa mig-21, a to mozemo da radimo.

eu nije vojna sila nego ekonomska, a htela bi da bude i politicka, samo joj to na globalnom planu nesto ne ide. znam, sad ces reci da si mislio na ekonomske sile...

hajde da se manje trudimo da ucinimo nekog srecnim, recimo ruse i bez ikakvih komplexa kupimo ono sto nama odgovara i da konacno krenemo da gledamo nas interes. zaista mislim da nam je u interesu da uzmemo gripen, da dobijemo neki offset i zaposlimo ljude i da nabavimo neko vozilo u kojem bi nasi vojnici bili sigurni od sto sireg spektra opasnosti. od kineza mozemo ocekivati u ekonomskom smislu samo dolazak jos vie kineza i otvaranja kineskih prodavnica.

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Znači Miraž
- Nemamo rezervne delove
- zemaljske ekipe nemaju iskustvo
- nemamo naoružanje
- nesigurni priliv rezervnih delova

SUuuuuuuper!

Pa samo kompleti rezervnih delova i naoružanja će da mekoštaju kao da smo kupili dva puta veći broj novih JF-17!!!

A onda da uzmemo i Su-25 koji je sasvim druga tehnika!
Divno!

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@Khaless,

potpuno pausalne ocene, potpuno neutemeljene u realnosti. srbija nema vise neprijatelja, odnosno zemalja koje ce odbiti da pruze logisticku podrsku. kada smo se zavadili sa amerima, ni rusi nam nisu dali nista tokom sankcija. to je realnost. ako se uvodi nov avion, ne gine ti nova logistika.

za motore sa su-25 imas logistiku - koliko znam, nasi rade motore sa mig-21, isti motori samo bez dod.sagor. su na su-25. ne znam sta ti sada smeta su-25, pa ti si prvi forsirao njegovu nabavku. za srpsko rv, ipak nabavka su-25 nije realna, jer za takve zadatke bi se mogao koristiti visenamenski borbeni avion sa preciznom municijom.

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Citat:радар може да буде нормалан који се нуди у верзији ФЦ-1- и опет бољи од радара МиГ.23 или МиГ.21 које околне земље имају.

MiG-23 vise niko u Evropi nema. Ostali ce MiG-21 povuci iz naoruzanja verovatno pre nas.

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China working on ‘Super-10’ advanced fighter
HENRY IVANOV
JDW Correspondent
Moscow

China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control,stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar, according to Russian sources. Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK-MiG) specialists, contracted to provide technical assistance to Chinese design houses, said the enhancement to the J-10 airframe is a logical step, since the fighter was initially intended to have the compact Pratt&Whitney PW1120 engine that powered the Israeli Lavi aircraft, which served as a basis for the J-10. However, the imposition of US
export restrictions forced the decision to install the 20 per cent heavier Russian AL-31FN engine, which requires a larger intake as it needs 40 per cent more air flow.
The J-10 was planned to carry the Phazotron-State Scientific Research Institute of Radio (NIIR) Zhemchug radar with mechanically scanned slotted antenna: a derivative of the Zhuk series fitted to advanced MiG-29 models. While Russia supplied three units to China and assisted Chinese institutes
working on the J-10 fire-control system, Phazotron-NIIR does not have any additional Chinese orders.
Company officials said the Zhemchug could not be copied because designers would not have access to some of its critical components, such as various Russian-made chips that are impossible to copy.
However, another Russian radar firm, Tikhomirov NIIP, said it had recently resumed working with China on a derivative of the Pero passive phased-array radar. The company said a developmental Pero unit was supplied to China in the late 1990s but, after a short test period, it was kept unused until recently when China restarted a joint programme with Tikhomirov NIIP.
Pero, originally developed for the discontinued Su-30KN multirole fighter, may well have been taken as a specimen for a Super-10 radar. Tikhomirov NIIP previously worked on a scaled-down version of the Pero for the MiG-29 and such a unit could fit into a planned Super-10.
In late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27’s AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox.
At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for theAL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.
The company’s general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the “Chinese Super-10 fighter”. Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut’s Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during which its swivel nozzle was deflected up/down and sideways at full power and reheated thrust.
Eliseyev said the AL-31FN M1 differs from the original in having an enlarged fan with an inlet diameter of 924 mm instead of 902 mm.
The increased airflow boosts the engine’s thrust at full afterburner from 27,560 lbst (122.6 kN) to 29,760 lbst (132.4 kN). It also has a swivel nozzle developed by Salyut together with St Petersburg-based Zavod imeni Klimova.
The nozzle features the Klimov Vectored Thrust (KliVT) design earlier applied to the RD-33OVT on the MiG-29OVT vectored-thrust demonstrator. Unlike the similar Nauchno-Proizvodstvennoe Obiedinenie (NPO) Saturn design in use on the Indian Air Force Su- 30MKI multirole fighters, which deflects only in pitch, the KliVT deflects in both pitch and yaw.
Eliseyev said the new swivel nozzle, compared to pitch-only designs, is “a lot more suitable” for single-engined aircraft, giving them the capability to remain fully controllable at extremely low speeds.

Dopuna: 12 Nov 2008 23:46

zixo ::Citat:радар може да буде нормалан који се нуди у верзији ФЦ-1- и опет бољи од радара МиГ.23 или МиГ.21 које околне земље имају.

MiG-23 vise niko u Evropi nema. Ostali ce MiG-21 povuci iz naoruzanja verovatno pre nas.

Мислио сам однос технолошког нивоа и ТТ карактеристика

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Khaless ::China working on ‘Super-10’ advanced fighter
HENRY IVANOV
JDW Correspondent
Moscow

China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control,stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar, according to Russian sources. Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK-MiG) specialists, contracted to provide technical assistance to Chinese design houses, said the enhancement to the J-10 airframe is a logical step, since the fighter was initially intended to have the compact Pratt&Whitney PW1120 engine that powered the Israeli Lavi aircraft, which served as a basis for the J-10. However, the imposition of US
export restrictions forced the decision to install the 20 per cent heavier Russian AL-31FN engine, which requires a larger intake as it needs 40 per cent more air flow.
The J-10 was planned to carry the Phazotron-State Scientific Research Institute of Radio (NIIR) Zhemchug radar with mechanically scanned slotted antenna: a derivative of the Zhuk series fitted to advanced MiG-29 models. While Russia supplied three units to China and assisted Chinese institutes
working on the J-10 fire-control system, Phazotron-NIIR does not have any additional Chinese orders.
Company officials said the Zhemchug could not be copied because designers would not have access to some of its critical components, such as various Russian-made chips that are impossible to copy.
However, another Russian radar firm, Tikhomirov NIIP, said it had recently resumed working with China on a derivative of the Pero passive phased-array radar. The company said a developmental Pero unit was supplied to China in the late 1990s but, after a short test period, it was kept unused until recently when China restarted a joint programme with Tikhomirov NIIP.
Pero, originally developed for the discontinued Su-30KN multirole fighter, may well have been taken as a specimen for a Super-10 radar. Tikhomirov NIIP previously worked on a scaled-down version of the Pero for the MiG-29 and such a unit could fit into a planned Super-10.
In late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27’s AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox.
At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for theAL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.
The company’s general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the “Chinese Super-10 fighter”. Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut’s Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during which its swivel nozzle was deflected up/down and sideways at full power and reheated thrust.
Eliseyev said the AL-31FN M1 differs from the original in having an enlarged fan with an inlet diameter of 924 mm instead of 902 mm.
The increased airflow boosts the engine’s thrust at full afterburner from 27,560 lbst (122.6 kN) to 29,760 lbst (132.4 kN). It also has a swivel nozzle developed by Salyut together with St Petersburg-based Zavod imeni Klimova.
The nozzle features the Klimov Vectored Thrust (KliVT) design earlier applied to the RD-33OVT on the MiG-29OVT vectored-thrust demonstrator. Unlike the similar Nauchno-Proizvodstvennoe Obiedinenie (NPO) Saturn design in use on the Indian Air Force Su- 30MKI multirole fighters, which deflects only in pitch, the KliVT deflects in both pitch and yaw.
Eliseyev said the new swivel nozzle, compared to pitch-only designs, is “a lot more suitable” for single-engined aircraft, giving them the capability to remain fully controllable at extremely low speeds.

Dopuna: 12 Nov 2008 23:46

zixo ::Citat:радар може да буде нормалан који се нуди у верзији ФЦ-1- и опет бољи од радара МиГ.23 или МиГ.21 које околне земље имају.

MiG-23 vise niko u Evropi nema. Ostali ce MiG-21 povuci iz naoruzanja verovatno pre nas.

Мислио сам однос технолошког нивоа и ТТ карактеристика

pa sta ako razvijaju super-10? to samo govori da je potrebno razvijati novu varijantu ili ako hoces, nov avion kako bi primio radar sa mig-29. prema karakteristikama, tek ce ovaj da bude na nivou kasnijih verzija mig-29. upravo se na te, kasnije verzije mig-29, mogu dovesti nasi mig-29 ili nabaviti iz ruskih rezervi - recimo oni koje alzir nije hteo i eto ti... sta, sad na silu treba kupovati od kineza?

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sebab ::Khaless ::China working on ‘Super-10’ advanced fighter
HENRY IVANOV
JDW Correspondent
Moscow

China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control,stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar, according to Russian sources. Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK-MiG) specialists, contracted to provide technical assistance to Chinese design houses, said the enhancement to the J-10 airframe is a logical step, since the fighter was initially intended to have the compact Pratt&Whitney PW1120 engine that powered the Israeli Lavi aircraft, which served as a basis for the J-10. However, the imposition of US
export restrictions forced the decision to install the 20 per cent heavier Russian AL-31FN engine, which requires a larger intake as it needs 40 per cent more air flow.
The J-10 was planned to carry the Phazotron-State Scientific Research Institute of Radio (NIIR) Zhemchug radar with mechanically scanned slotted antenna: a derivative of the Zhuk series fitted to advanced MiG-29 models. While Russia supplied three units to China and assisted Chinese institutes
working on the J-10 fire-control system, Phazotron-NIIR does not have any additional Chinese orders.
Company officials said the Zhemchug could not be copied because designers would not have access to some of its critical components, such as various Russian-made chips that are impossible to copy.
However, another Russian radar firm, Tikhomirov NIIP, said it had recently resumed working with China on a derivative of the Pero passive phased-array radar. The company said a developmental Pero unit was supplied to China in the late 1990s but, after a short test period, it was kept unused until recently when China restarted a joint programme with Tikhomirov NIIP.
Pero, originally developed for the discontinued Su-30KN multirole fighter, may well have been taken as a specimen for a Super-10 radar. Tikhomirov NIIP previously worked on a scaled-down version of the Pero for the MiG-29 and such a unit could fit into a planned Super-10.
In late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27’s AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox.
At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for theAL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.
The company’s general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the “Chinese Super-10 fighter”. Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut’s Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during which its swivel nozzle was deflected up/down and sideways at full power and reheated thrust.
Eliseyev said the AL-31FN M1 differs from the original in having an enlarged fan with an inlet diameter of 924 mm instead of 902 mm.
The increased airflow boosts the engine’s thrust at full afterburner from 27,560 lbst (122.6 kN) to 29,760 lbst (132.4 kN). It also has a swivel nozzle developed by Salyut together with St Petersburg-based Zavod imeni Klimova.
The nozzle features the Klimov Vectored Thrust (KliVT) design earlier applied to the RD-33OVT on the MiG-29OVT vectored-thrust demonstrator. Unlike the similar Nauchno-Proizvodstvennoe Obiedinenie (NPO) Saturn design in use on the Indian Air Force Su- 30MKI multirole fighters, which deflects only in pitch, the KliVT deflects in both pitch and yaw.
Eliseyev said the new swivel nozzle, compared to pitch-only designs, is “a lot more suitable” for single-engined aircraft, giving them the capability to remain fully controllable at extremely low speeds.

Dopuna: 12 Nov 2008 23:46

zixo ::Citat:радар може да буде нормалан који се нуди у верзији ФЦ-1- и опет бољи од радара МиГ.23 или МиГ.21 које околне земље имају.

MiG-23 vise niko u Evropi nema. Ostali ce MiG-21 povuci iz naoruzanja verovatno pre nas.

Мислио сам однос технолошког нивоа и ТТ карактеристика

pa sta ako razvijaju super-10? to samo govori da je potrebno razvijati novu varijantu ili ako hoces, nov avion kako bi primio radar sa mig-29. prema karakteristikama, tek ce ovaj da bude na nivou kasnijih verzija mig-29. upravo se na te, kasnije verzije mig-29, mogu dovesti nasi mig-29 ili nabaviti iz ruskih rezervi - recimo oni koje alzir nije hteo i eto ti... sta, sad na silu treba kupovati od kineza?
Хоћеш да ти за рођендан купим Барбику или макету Мираж-2000?

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Ajde da se vratimo temi . A to nije nabavka Kineskih aviona za Srpsko V i PVO.

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PLAAF Shenyang J-11

Kao što je već rečeno - licencni Su-27 proizveden u Kini.

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Da, sada se ispituje poboljsani J-11B.