NOVJ i JVUO 1941-1944

38

NOVJ i JVUO 1941-1944

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Iz svega sto smo do sada ovde mogli procitati vidi se da se karakter borbe menjao maltene od opstine do opstine. Nije ni cudo sto su neki bili zacudjeni sa nekim postupcima saboraca, odnosno naredjenjima, na kraju, a verovatno i tokom samog rata.

Da bi smo iz neke foptografije izvukli nekakv zakljucak mora postojati neka prica uz nju. Takodje, daleko je uverljivije ukoliko se vidi neko od predvodnika ili od istaknutih ljudi iz nekog pokreta. Nego nagadjati sta radi nekoliko vojnika sa ovim simbolia pored vojnika sa drugim simbolima. Mogla bi biti najobicnija papazjanija/propaganda Abvera ili jednostavno njihovi ljudi koji su se vratili sa zadatka itd... da ne nagadjam dalje...



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1- mislim da je jako vazno da konacno rasvetlimo nasu najblizu istoriju, jer nas ona i danas deli, a to nije dobro. Sve dok ne rascistimo potpuno ulogu svih grupacija tokom Velikog rata, necemo se smiriti i pomiriti i uvek ce se naci neko sa strane da nas na osnovu tadasnjih podela (cetnici, partizani, Ljoticevci, Nedicevci,Pecanac, Drzavna Straza....) i dalje deli sve do : sudnjega dana.

2- vazno je da kada se rasvetli uloga svih Srba i njihovih vodja u prethodnom ratu, da se onda dogovorimo sta ko kome moze i treba da oprosti i da posle toga OSLOBODJENi tog tereta idemo dalje. To znaci da budemo spremni na pomirenje uz nove podatke upisane u istoriju. Zato ne bi trebalo da bude nikakve netrpeljivosti prema iznosenju ovih podataka.


Glavni Staa gestapoa je osnovao je Sektor C za hapsenje ravnogoraca.Zoran Vukovic obavestava Speciljalnu Policiju koje Ravnogorce treba pohapsiti!
Preko 1000 simpazitera Draze Mihajlovica je streljano u Jaincima!


Архив БДР-а,(GESTAPO) која се налази у Архиву града Београда.


Znaci neki ovde is ideoloskih razloga se trude da dokazu kako cetnicki pokret nije bio jedinstven, bez centralne komande, strategije...a onda kada je u pitanju saradnja sa okupatorom, onda se ceo taj pokret generalizuje kao saradjivac okupatora.
Pa poznato je da su odredi Djujica i Djurisica saradjivali sa Italijanima. A da li je neko porazmislio zasto je to bilo tako. Ko nije prihvatio Italijane kao okupatore, Italijani su pustali ustase da zavedu red. I to nije bilo tako samo u Lici, Bosni i Dalmaciji, vec i Kosovu.
Drugi motiv je bio anti-komunizam, a su tako neke jedinice, cak i u Srbiji saradjivale sa nemcima. Ovde ne govorim samo o Drzavnoj Strazi, i Zboru, vec i odredima Koste pecanca.
BAs kao i partizani cetnici su bili ilegalni pokret, zabranjen i od Nemaca proganjan!
Draza nije sedeo u Beogradu u nekoj kancelariji.
Dopuna: 15 Jan 2010 4:46

Inace niko do sad nije spomenuo nemacki napad na "Ravnu Goru"
U selu Struganiku pocetkom decembra 1941.Nemci organizuju napad na RAvnu Goru u nameri da uhvate Drazu!
U borbi je ucestvoval oko 2000 nemackih vojnika 920 bataljona Vermahta i oko 450 pripadnika JVuO!
Polse nekoliko dana borbi i oko 100 zarobljenih boraca uhvaceni su i oficiri JVuO: Aleksandar Misic i Slovenac Flegl.
Obojica su bili majori .
Odvedu ih u Valjevo da ih streljaju.
Aleksandar Misic bio je sin Zivojina Misica. Pre toga ponudili su mu zivot. Razlog: majka mu je bila rodjena Nemica. Zvala se Lujza.
- U vama tece pola nemacke krvi! - rekao je nemacki oficir sinu Zivojina Misica.
Na to mu Aleksandar rece:
- Ta polovina je otekla u Kolubaru!
Stave ih Nemci pred zid i kao oficiri, ponude im da kazu poslednje zelje.
Major Flegl, koji je savrseno govorio nemacki, zazeli da sam komanduje streljackom stroju koji treba da ih strelja!
Nemci to prihvate.
Aleksandar Misic zatrazi da mu odvezu ruke i da mu dopuste da razveze pertle na levoj cokuli! Nije im bilo jasno, ali - odobre mu!
U trenutku kad je major Flegl komandovao - Puske na gotovs!, major Misic je skinuo levu cizmu i bacio je na streljacki stroj bas u trenutku kad je pala komanda: Vatra!

Dopuna: 15 Jan 2010 4:52

.....................................................................................................
Na primer The Library of Congres. Treba li nekom posebno objasnjenje, sta znaci ta institucija, neka pita.

The Library of Congres>> Especially for Researchers >> Research Centers
A Country Study: Yugoslavia (Former)
Library of Congress Call Number DR1214 .Y83 1992

Section 1 of 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yugoslavia
Partition and Terror
Germany, Italy, Hungary, and Bulgaria dismembered Yugoslavia. Germany occupied a rump Serbia and part of Vojvodina (see fig. 5). It created a puppet "Independent State of Croatia" (Nezavisna drzava Hrvatska, NDH) including Croatia and Bosnia and Hercegovina, and it annexed northern Slovenia. Italy won southern Slovenia and much of Dalmatia, joined Kosovo with its Albanian puppet state, and occupied Montenegro. Hungary occupied part of Vojvodina and Slovenian and Croatian border regions. Bulgaria took Macedonia and a part of southern Serbia.

Germany unleashed a reign of terror and Germanization in northern Slovenia. It resettled Slovenes in Serbia, moved German colonists onto Slovenian farms, and attempted to erase Slovenian cultural institutions. The Catholic hierarchy collaborated with the authorities in Italian-occupied southern Slovenia, which suffered less tyranny than the north.

Germany and Italy supported the NDH and began diverting natural resources to the Axis war machine. When Macek refused to collaborate, the Nazis made Ante Pavelic head of the NDH. His Ustase storm troopers began eliminating the two million Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies in the NDH, through forced religious conversion, deportation, and extreme violence. The NDH was backed enthusiastically by some Croatian Catholic clergy, including the Archbishop of Sarajevo; some Franciscan priests enlisted in the Ustase and participated in massacres. The Archbishop of Zagreb, Alojzije Stepinac, publicly welcomed and appeared with Paveli while privately protesting NDH atrocities. On the other hand, many Catholic priests condemned the violence and helped Orthodox Serbs to practice their religion in secret. Even the Germans were appalled by Ustase violence, and Berlin feared the bloodbath would ignite greater Serbian resistance. Italy reoccupied areas of Hercegovina to halt the slaughter there.

Jews and Serbs also were massacred in areas occupied by the Albanians and the Hungarians. Thousands of Serbs fled to Serbia, where the Germans had established a puppet regime under General Milan Nedic. Nedic considered himself a custodian rather than a collaborator and strove to maintain control of violence. In the south of Yugoslavia, many Macedonians welcomed Bulgarian forces, expecting that Sofia would grant them autonomy; but a harsh Bulgarianization campaign ended their enthusiasm.
The first resistance group to emerge were the Chetniks - in Serbian the word means a detachment of men. These were nominally led by a former Yugoslav Army Colonel, named Dragoljub ('Draza') Mihailovic, who served the Yugoslav Royalist government in exile.

Resistance in Yugoslavia developed mainly in dispersed units of the Yugoslav army and among Serbs fleeing genocide in Croatia and Bosnia and Hercegovina.
Various armed groups in Serbia organized under the name Cetnik (pl. Cetnici--see Glossary), from the Serbian word for "detachment.".

........The best known Cetnici were the followers of Colonel Draza Mihajlovic, a Serbian nationalist, monarchist, and staunch anticommunist. Certain that the Allies would soon invade the Balkans, Mihajlovic advised his Cetnici to avoid clashes with Axis forces and prepare for a general uprising to coincide with the Allied push. In October 1941, Britain recognized Mihajlovic as the leader of the Yugoslav resistance movement, and in 1942 the government-in-exile promoted him to commander of its armed forces.
The original nucleus of these guerrilla bands were the ethnic Serb Yugoslav troops who had evaded Axis capture during the invasion, and then fled to the hills of Bosnia, Montenegro, and Serbia. Mihailovic established his first stronghold in the mountainous Ravna Gora area of western Serbia.

Soon Chetnik numbers were swelled by Serb, Slovenian and Muslim peasants who had fled from Greater Croatia. Many of these participants sought simply to defend their local village from the terrible brutalities of the Ustase. The latter were so brutal that they even drew protests from the Germans - not on humanitarian grounds, but because Ustase ethnic cleansing was fuelling the resistance movements.

The Chetniks were never a homogenous ideological movement, and many sub-groups paid no more than lip-service to Mihailovic's leadership. Some groups were implacably anti-German, whereas others saw the emerging rival resistance movement, that of the Partisans, as the greater threat. The elements that did unite the Chetniks, however, were their loyalty to the old Royalist regime, and their desire to ensure the survival of the Serbian population.


......The Partisan leader, Josip Broz Tito, son of a Croatian-Slovenian peasant family, had joined the Red Guards during the 1917 Russian Revolution and become a party member after returning to Yugoslavia. Tito won membership in the Central Committee of the Yugoslavian Communist Party in 1934, then became secretary general after a 1937 purge. In the four years before the war, Tito directed a communist resurgence and built a strong organization of 12,000 full party members and 30,000 members of the youth organization. The party played some role in demonstrations in Belgrade against the Tripartite Pact, and it called for a general uprising after Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941. The Partisan slogan "Death to Fascism, Freedom to the People," combined with a pan-Yugoslav appeal, won recruits for Tito across the country--despite the fact that before the war the communists had worked for the breakup of Yugoslavia.

......Germany warned that it would execute 100 Serbs for every German soldier the resistance killed, and German troops killed several thousand civilians at Kragujevac in a single reprisal. Tito reasoned that such actions would enrage the population and bring the Partisans more recruits, so he disregarded the German threat and continued his guerrilla warfare. He also arranged assassinations of local political figures and ordered attacks on the Cetnici to coincide with German action against them. Mihajlovic, however, feared that German reprisals would turn into a Serbian holocaust, so he ordered his forces not to engage the Germans.
Chetniks were often reluctant to attack Axis targets, in case this provoked brutal Axis retaliation against the local Serb population. In addition, Mihailovic wished to conserve his forces for the general uprising that would coincide with the envisaged Allied invasion of Axis-occupied Yugoslavia.


After fruitless negotiations with Tito, the Cetnik leader turned against the Partisans as his main enemy.

......Soviet dictator Joseph V. Stalin, fearing that Partisan action might weaken Allied trust of the Soviet Union, and suspicious of revolutionary movements not under his control, reportedly instructed Tito to limit the Partisans to national liberation and antifascist activities. Moscow refused to supply arms to Tito, maintained relations with the government-in-exile, and even offered a military mission and supplies to the Cetnici.
...... In 1943 Germany mounted offensives to improve its control of Yugoslavia in anticipation of an Allied invasion of the Balkans. The Partisans, fearing that an Allied invasion would benefit the Cetnici, attacked Mihajlovic's forces.
.....AVNOJ voted to reconstitute the country on a federal basis; elected a national committee to act as the temporary government; named Tito marshal of Yugoslavia and prime minister; and issued a declaration forbidding King Petar to return to the country until a popular referendum had been held on the status of the monarchy. ....
The days that followed the end of the war led to one last round of vengeful blood-letting. Tito's Partisans executed at least 30,000 Croat Ustase troops, plus many civilian refugees. In addition, Tito's secret police - the OZNa - hunted down the Chetnik bands in Serbia, and in 1946 executed Mihailovic as a war criminal. Many Chetniks went into hiding, living a shadow existence constantly on the move between safe houses to avoid arrest.

One Chetnik who survived a Nazi concentration camp only to fall into the hands of the OZNa recalled, 'the Gestapo destroyed the body; OZNa raped the soul.' The violent struggles that occurred in Yugoslavia between 1941 and 1945 resulted in over 1.7 million dead.

Of these, one million were caused by Yugoslav killing Yugoslav, whether it was Croat Ustase against Jews, Muslims, Serbs, Chetniks and Partisans; or Partisans against Chetniks and Ustase; or Chetniks against Ustase, Muslims, and Partisans.

Sadly, too many of the dead met a gruesome end, like the 250 Serbs of the Glina district who, after being locked in a church, were beaten to death by Ustase wielding spiked clubs. Such was the reality of life - and death - in war-torn war-time Yugoslavia.



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Khaless ::

Готово сви четнички команданти из Босне и Далмације, првенствено Ђујић, и Ђуришић

Đurišić je iz Crne Gore.

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@ cinoeye

Nije Flegl nego Fregl. To je bio ćale moje profesorke francuskog. Njemu svaka čast, ali ona je bila zlo.

Priča koju je ona nama pričala o svom ocu je da je izvršio samoubistvo, ličnim pištoljem. Nema veze sa ovim što si gore napisao, ali kroz google pretragu sam primetio da se ta verzija o streljanju ponavlja na nekoliko mesta.

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Jeste Grbe izgleda da covjek izbacuje neke stvari ne provjerene.Grbe da li si cuo da se Djurisic borio za povratak Petrovica dinastije i da je zbog toga kasnije dosao u sukob sa Drazom i izdat Ustasama.Ne znam koliko je to tacno??A ove slike partizana jasno se vidi da se radi o nekim pregovorima ,a ne nikako od saradnji i zajednickom nastupaju. Izbacite slike Cetnika,Ustasa,Njemaca,Italijana kako zajdeno rucaju,slave i te stvari...

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Nisam čuo za njegovo zalaganje za povratak Petrovića. Potpuno je protivrječno biti za Dražu i Karđorđeviće sa jedne strane, a ovamo se zalagati i za Petroviće.
Ima neka monografija koja detaljnije opisuje njegovo vojevanje. Kako nisam našao direktan link već samo citirane odlomke, nisam je htio postavljati.

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Sta je srz? Da li su svi PArtizani zaista bili levicari?
Da li su svi Cetnici bili desnicari?
Da li saradnjom za okupatorom, automatski postajete fasista i nacista?
Da li je bilo pametno po srpske nacionalne inetese praviti partijske i ideoloske oruzane snage?
Da li je pametno bilo menjati drustvenopoliticki sistem putem oruzja?
I kako to sve sto je pro-NOV je provereno, a ostalo nije? Da li je moguce da su pobednici pisali istoriju u svoju korist?
Dali je moguce da je 10%-15% cetnik ai Partizana zaista bilo ekstremno, dok su ostali bili ljudi seljaci sa puskom u ruci?
Da li se zna da da ni svi vojnici u NOV nisu nosili petokrake sve do sredine 44? Da li se zna koliko je cetnickih oficira i vojnika preslo u NOV, posle govora Kralja? MAda sumnjam da su mislili da ce to dovesti do jednopartijsko sistema posle rata.
I sta se tacno fotografijama dokazuje?

Da li misliite zaista da su cetnici mogli setati po gradovima okupirane Srbije, dok je Draza sedeo na dedinju?
Da li verujete da su cetnici i ustase po NDH ruckali zajedno, samo zato sto je Draza pisao Papi?
The Library of Congress je valjda neki validan izvor?

Sve to je farsa, koja nam je dosla glave u zadnjih 60, a posebno u zadnjih 20-ak godina.
Taj jendopartijski sistem, Jugoslovenstvo(zagovarano i od komunista i Monarhista)...to je ono sto je pogubno. Dakle sta se desilo posle rata, a ne nesumnjiva oruzana superiornost i efektiva NOV u borbi protiv okupatora.

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Shvatam potrebu trazenja istine na osnovu relevantnih istorijskih podataka, ali ne shvatam potrebu tolike degradacije partizana i njihovih istorijskih tekovina.
Posmatrati samu borbu NOP jedinica od 1941-45 ali ne uzimati i period prije 1941 i sta je to dovelo da infiltracije komunizma, po meni je neoprostiva greska. E sada zbog cega se namjerno precutkuje stanje u KJ prije II svjetskog rata,meni nije jasno.

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Slazem se i ja, ne treba gledati istoriju kroz ideoloske naocare.
Mislim da ljudi nisu janso definisali razliku izmedju oruzanog aspekta NOV, kao i onu drugu politicku stranu. I sa druge strane razliku izmedju Drzavne Straze, Zbora, Pecanca, ravnogorca, JVuO...
Inace, secam se kako sam u istorijskom arhivu citao novinukada je ubijen Kralj Aleksandar. Pa tamo na nekoj trecoj strani se spominju uhapseni komunisti, kod kojih je pronadjena veca kolicina oruzja. Vecina su bili Hrvati,a navodno, zalagali su se za oruzanu pobunu protiv sistema. Komunizam nikada ne bi ima sanse da uzme vlast, osim revolucijom.
To je bio njihov glavni cilj, zauzimanje vlasti, pa su cinili sve da u tom pogledu uspeju. I za njih je, kao i za cetnike, vaznije bilo sta ce se desiti posle rata, a ne sta ce biti sa okupatorom.

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  • grbe 
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Ne bih se slozio da nisu toliko vodili racuna o okupatoru. Tu prvashodno mislim na partizane.
Naravno da niti jedan sistem nije pao bez revolucije. Ali zasto je KJ bila pogodno tle za komunizam?

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