Virtuelni dogfight

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Virtuelni dogfight

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Ptica je jedno, metalni objekti su drugo.



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mareCar ::Ptica je jedno, metalni objekti su drugo.

Jest vala, naveo sam primer Gripena jer je kod njega motorče ojacano zbog ptica i zbog kamenja koje se ocekuje kada polece iz nekog šumarka.

Nego evo zanimljive analize i malo reklamiranja:
http://www.lambdatechs.com/html/documents/blade.PDF



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sivisoko ::mean_machine ::Napisano: 04 Sep 2011 12:58

@sivisoko

Citat:
The 100-kilowatt infrared laser, which is being developed for the F35 Joint Strike Fighter by defence companies Lockheed Martin and Raytheon, is far more powerful than any laser ever used in war. But because it is designed to attack targets such as other fighter aircraft, ground vehicles and anti-aircraft batteries, it is exempt from the Geneva Convention's ban on blinding weapons.


Pa pre toga imas primer MiG-25 ciji radar ima maksimalnu potrosnju od nekoliko stotina kW.

Dopuna: 04 Sep 2011 13:27

A imas i onaj interviju direktora (ili glavnog inzenjera) NIIR gde pominju da ce za Su-30MKI biti ponudjena aesa resetka.


Onda za ruse nema zime, jer mogu da koriste sistem napajanja iz dvadeset petice za sve nove "elektronske" avione lovce :>

Sto se tice F-35 i lasera, to je ona prica "imamo, ali znas, ne smemo da upotrebimo".
Pa bas taj F-35 je imao problem sa padom el. napajanja i zbog toga je bio jedno vreme prizemljen. Samo mu jos i taj laser fali, pa da i ovako neispravan zavrsi karijeru i pre nego sto mu je pocela.

Ne tvrdim da znam zasto je izuzetno tesko obezbediti efikasno napajanje svih avionskih elsktronskih sistema energijom, ali isto tako nisam jos nigde cuo zadovoljavajuci odgovor na to pitanje, jer je cinjenica da su pri ugradnji prvih AESA radara i opste "elektronizacije" aviona, postojale teskoce oko napajanja istih.

Sve sto sam do sada naveo su moje spekulacije.


Dosta elektronike,dosta provodnika,a čim imaš dosta veza dolazi do gubitaka u smislu pada napona tj.imamo veći otpor,a čim imamo tu situaciju,moramo je ispravljati.A to znači,stabilizirati napone na određenim potrošačima(ako je u pitanju elektronika,ona ne trpi velike oscilacije)....itd...
Dva Kirhofova i Omov zakon će vam dati riješenje tj.ukazaće vam na veličinu problema kao što je napajanje aviona el.energijom.

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@S2M

Hvala za smernicu Ziveli

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Napisano: 09 Sep 2011 15:13

salesam ::
Nema sta da se foliram. Iskreno mislim da prvi put cujem za ovaj podatak. Za 712 koliko znam jeste bio i sa i bez ali ni to ne mogu bas stvarno da tvrdim. Znam da je bilo nekih tekstova o testiranju sa i bez VP-a i da sam ih citao, moguce da se pominjao i 711, i da mi je to promaklo. Ili da sam mozda cak i procitao ali kao da nisam jer se ne secam. Sve jedno veliko hvala sto si me opomenuo i sto sam naucio jos nesto novo o Terminatoru. Reci mi samo koliko je tacno trajalo to ispitivanje bez kontrole potiska?

PS. Terminator mi jeste omiljeni ali uz Raptora, Falcona i Drakena.


Ma znam, verujem ti , malo sam se salio Wink

Skinuli su TVC i poceli su da testiraju noviji, savrseniji FCS, a uporedo su poceli sa razvojem AL-31FP sa vec poznatom postavkom mlaznica. Bez TVC SU-37 je leteo samo oko godinu dana, jer se posle toga srusio.
TVC na SU-37 je imao mali vek trajanja i manju brzinu otklona (30°/s) koliko se secam, pa su ga skinuli i krenuli da razvijaju savrseniji sistem, koji je danas primenjen na MKI.

Zato sam i postavio taj klip, jer je zaista neverovatno sta taj avion radi samo preko "ciste" aerodinamike! Uspeli su da kombinacijom aerodinamickih resenja i FCS sistema ostvare nekoliko puta manje vibracije na kriticnim napadnim uglovima, kada je vrlo bitno da avion bude miran kako bi uspeo da ostvari precizno otvaranje vatre na protivnika.

Dopuna: 13 Sep 2011 15:57

Evo par interesantnih tekstova sa ruske strane koji potvrdjuju neke pretpostavke.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c.....2VsroDLyvw

Tekst se odnosi na procene britanske agencije DERA i na protekle vezbe izmedju indijaca i amerikanaca.

Ukratko, kada su na vezbama ucestvovali operativni americki piloti protiv operativnih indijskih pilota, amerikanci su u velikoj vecini slucajeva trpeli gubitke.

Ono sto se desilo na RF 2008 se razlikuje po tome sto je protiv MKI ucestvovao specijalan tim instruktora pilota koji su od COPE INDIA 2004 studirali taktike i nacin upotrebe MKI u prethodim vezbama i uz iskustvo akumulirano borbama protiv F-22 uspeli da ostvare "kill".

Citat:Obviously, this circumstance has forced an unnamed member of the American military exercises "Red Fleg 2008" supplement their message further explanation, that in the cockpits of F-15s were on the exercise of the pilots are not training that the pilots had F-16C, participated for three years before in the military exercise "Cope India 2005". They were pilots, specially trained to conduct close air combat with a super-maneuverable aircraft of the enemy, whose role in carrying out the training carried out F-22 "Raptor". This explanation has been summarized by a special clause: "The advantages of the F-15C in the melee is clearly a temporary phenomenon. Realizing the weakness in the conduct of tactical short-range air combat with the elements of super maneuverability, Indian pilots, of course, find time techniques that allow them, using the properties maneuverable Su-30MKI fighters to resist in the air F-15C, piloted the U.S. Air Force. "

Jasno je da se radilo o taktickom preimucstvu, a ne o inferiornosti MKI.
Dakle iskustvo, racionalnije i pametnije koristenje TVC ce dovesti do apsolutne dominacije MKI nad F-15 i F-16 kao sto je i Col. Terens sam naglasio.

Izgleda da sam dobro razumeo sta je americki pilot u video klipu pricao Wink

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl.....fight.html

Drugi tekst se odnosi na interviju sa Pavelom Vlasovom

On naglasava da se sa TVC dobija preimucnstvo ne samo u POST STALL oblasti vec i pri konvencionalnom manevrisanju i u slobodi manevrisanja zbog nemogucnosti pada u kovit, zbog cega pilot moze da se potpunije skoncentrise na samu borbu.

Citat:"The application will manage vserakursnogo OVT MiG-29M/M2 more accurate, more confident and more energetic, almost independent from the angle of attack, not only when the elements supermaneuverability, but the traditional flying," said Director of Engineering Center "OKB . Mikoyan "RAC" MiG "Vladimir Barkovsky. "This will provide additional significant benefits MiG-29M/M2 in a dogfight, significantly increasing the safety of flying at extreme regimes, reducing the load on the pilot and will allow him to focus more on direct combat missions. New features enhance the combat effectiveness of aircraft and increase its competitiveness. "

Mnogi su postavljali pitanje zasto ameri nisu postavili TVC na svoje avione cetvrte generacije kada pruza toliko prednosti.
Ja sam dosta toga napisao na tu temu, a ovaj tekst to samo potvrdjuje

Citat:- Why do not other manufacturers of fighter planes followed the example of their Russian colleagues?

- The idea is not new. After the presentations on "Air Tattoo" is already at the air show in Farnborough, to the stand of the company, which was created vserakursnoe nozzle for the engine, engine-come specialists in many firms. Regretfully, they were told that ten years ago they "froze" the topic to which spent many years. Could not find a technical solution, which simultaneously provide both the required characteristics of the controlled nozzles, and given life and reliability. The Russians also managed to find the optimum: the minimal increase in weight of the engine with thrust vectoring give the aircraft a unique maneuverability with almost no reduction of engine life and reliability.

Americans have also worked on thrust vectoring. They tried it and the F-15, F-16, X-31. Winner of the "Air Tattoo" in 2004 Treyven Ricardo, who this year also appeared on the F-18, told me with regret that he had flown on NASA's flying laboratory based on the F-15 c thrust vectoring, but the level of technology of that time did not allow implement this option without prejudice to the basic characteristics of the aircraft. Challenge - to turn the nozzle hot gas flow through the power of 8.3 tonnes (this is the thrust of the engine) to 150 in all planes. This should be a very robust design. Americans apparently have failed to create it in an acceptable weight and size. And excess weight and dimensions - is reduced acceleration, speed, maneuverability characteristics in regimes when the deflection of the thrust vector is not used. "Nawar" from the super maneuverability in a relatively narrow range of speeds and angles of attack "eaten" degradation of performance under normal conditions.


I na kraju, o tipicnim okolnostima dog fajta

Citat:I want to go back to opponents maneuverability. Their main counterargument is that the string of air combat begins at speeds close to 0.9 M, where maneuverability is not applicable. But a minute later with the confrontation with the aircraft approximately equal to the normal maneuvering characteristics of this Mach nothing left. I had on the local fighter (no OVT) to "fight" with the F-16 in Venezuela. One minute after maneuvering speed is around 400 km / h, ie in the range where the limited angle of attack, where there is no one performance rudders etc. Just at this position, maneuverability would be very helpful. I won because our plane was a little more thrust and a little more secure when they lose speed, but also due to a number of other more minor features. I repeat, the bout begins at Mach 0.9, and ends somewhere in the 400 km / h, where the maneuverability of a conventional aircraft is almost exhausted, and who even for a second can turn to attack, he also won.

Jos bi samo naglasio da odnos potiska i mase i "wing loading" ne mogu da daju potpunu sliku o mogucnostima nekog aviona.
Koeficijent aerodinamicke efikasnosti je jedan od vrlo bitnih faktora, pa tako SU-27 ima faktor od 1,6 u odnosu na 1,1 kod F-15, sto znaci da suhoj generise oko 50% vise uzgona od Orla iako ima veci "wing loading" od njega.


I za kraj , ljudi koji su nam omogucili da gledamo bravure koje suhoj radi na nebu!

http://www.biograph.ru/goldfund/simonov-team.htm

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Задњи део горњаке трупа авиона, на коме се јасно види отвор за гасове турбостартера.



Леп пропагандни приказ 35-тице:
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Да, у питању је прави православни авион


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Bez svete vodice naše ptice neće leteti...
A u Srbiji obrnuto, bez svete lovice...

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Ching Kuo ::Bez svete vodice naše ptice neće leteti...
A u Srbiji obrnuto, bez svete lovice...


Браво!хаахаа..! Very Happy

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djordje ::
Леп пропагандни приказ 35-тице:
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Jel ovo novi buklet? Nigde ne pominju radarske antene u krilima? To bese glavni adut protiv F-35 u analizama koje je radio Karlo Kop i drustvo?

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U Srbiji uskoro 12 Su-35S.... zamislite to... Very Happy

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