Virtuelni dogfight

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Aj nesto drugo, opasno je smorilo ovo F-35 vs Rusija. Vrti se isto.

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AH-64 vs MI-28, top vs top ! Prednosti, mane, preciznost, vrste municije, ucinak na raznim ciljevima...

Neke brojke na brzinu, cisto onako okvirno, za pocetak

AH-64, M230





Kalibar 30x113 mm
Domet maksimalno do 4500 metara, efikasno do 1700, probija 25 mm na 500 m
1200 granata u kompletu

MI-28, 2A42



Kalibar 30x165 mm
Domet protiv lakseg oklopa do 1500 m, na 1000 m probija 18-25 mm, do 4000 m za ostale mete
250 granata u kompletu

U cijeg je tatka veca patka se vidi, ali sta je bolje ? Zato sluzi ova tema.



Moze i da se zacini sa KA-52, isti 2A42, ali 460 granata, ali fiksni top.



PS: Nestavljam MI-24P jer se sada pravi MI-35M sa Gsh 23. Ali ako neko misli da je to bolje, slobodno.

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^

Dobra tematika ,samo cu dodati da 2A42 kod Ka-50/52 ipak nije fiksiran .

Citat:При нацеливании с помощью комплекса «Шквал-В» пушка способна отклоняться на −2°..+9° по горизонтали и +3°..-37° по вертикали.

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Sta, niko ?

Ogranicenja kod topa na AH-64 zbog pregrevanja

Citat:The Apache's M230 30mm lightweight automatic cannon is effective, but limited. It fires 30mm linkless ammunition at a rate of 625 shots per minute. However, the gun duty cycle to prevent overheating is as follows: six 50-round bursts with 5 seconds between bursts followed by a 10-minute cooling period. For bursts limited settings other than 50, the duty cycle can be generalized as no more than 300 rounds fired within 60 seconds before allowing the gun to cool for ten minutes, after which the cycle may be repeated.

In short, an Apache can only fire 300 rounds before having to take a ten minute break to allow the gun to cool, and this assumes the gun never jams or malfunctions. Time on station is limited by fuel, and pilots attempting to avoid enemy anti-aircraft fire shouldn't circle aimlessly for 10 minutes after each brief gun engagement. Perhaps a rotating gatling gun is required, but that is only part of the solution.

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Kako stoji 2A42 po tom pitanju ?

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Ako ništa kod 2A42 je bolja teta.

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Toni ::
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Kako stoji 2A42 po tom pitanju ?
Ja se kladim na jedan rafal.

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Nije bitno jer se nikada ne nosi preko 300 granata, zbog nekog drugog problema.

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Udario ruski Su-35 na američki F-22: KO POBEĐUJE?

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Here's who'd win in a dogfight between Russia's and the US's top fighter jets

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Dosta se pisalo o sim. vazdusnim duelima MiG-29 vs F-16 ( MiG-29 9-12A vs F-16C Block 50/52+ ) kako u reziji Svaba i Amera i drugih NATO-vaca npr Holandeza ,Bugara takodje vs Amera a evo nam i nekih iskustava od strane Poljaka koji u svojim VS-ma imaju oba lovca ...

Sve se odigralo tokom 2009g a nije mi poznato je li ovo ranije bilo na MCM ...

Citat:ff1987 translated this information on Polish Air Force exercises. I have discussed these results in several forums. Most of the people are really surprised about MiG-29 efectiveness because it's an early version without ECM equipment (like Gardenya) and the old radar. R-27 missile is also quite effective. Any opinions?

Polish magazine "Armia" 3-4/2009 , 5/2009
article : F-16 vs MiG-29

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Col. M.Wiączkowski ( MiG-29 pilot) describe some fights:

1)scenario :
BVR - distance over 50km , 4 MiG-29 (9.12) vs 2 F-16blk 52+
results : 2 F-16 and 1 MiG-29 shoot down

(F-16 were supposed to attack and Mig-29 were flying CAP).

2) scenario :
BVR , 4 vs 4 , F-16 had E-3C support.
results : 4 MiG-29 shoot down

F-16 was flying by U.S. instructors at that time.

And some explanations...

"In time, when the monthly exercise Fruit Fly Polish pilots took over the reins completely new F-16, the scales tipped straight victories in the direction of the F-16
At this point, it should be noted that it does not undermine the ability of American pilots, but only affirm undeniable facts. With full responsibility, we can conclude that a different airline personnel training system of American (75% based on the interaction with AWACS) is noticeable not only in serving not only air combat training, but also during normal flight school. In our field conditions and with our air defense systems, U.S. pilots to cope with varying fortune, which was confirmed by exercises which took place over the last few years. The Polish pilots trained in air combat with the F-16 both 1vs1, 2vs2. Several times tried clashes 1 MiG-29 vs 2 F-16 and the results obtained are really different from not settled, including the fight due to the ending of fuel "

Another pilots { 1)MiG-29 and 2)F-16 pilots } relations from "FruitFly" exercises :

1)scenario

Red : 4 F-16 (escort) , 4 Su-22 ( bombers )
Blue : 4 MiG-29 (CAP)
-some AMRAAM and R-27 shoot were evade ( max range shoot ) by turning away
-AMRAAM kill 2 MiG-29 in BVR
-R-27 kill 1 F-16 in BVR
-R-73 kill 2 F-16 in WVR
results : 2 MiG-29 and 3 F-16 shoot down

2)scenario

Red : 4 F-16 (escort) , 4 Su-22 ( bombers )
Blue : 4 MiG-29 (CAP)
-start at alt 8-9km
-distance : F-16 detect MiG-29 from 120km , track at 80 km , only one F-16 used his radar , and thanks to link 16 provide data to the others F-16s.
-first shoot were below 80km ( at max range ) - 4 AMRAAM and 2 R-27 , and all missiles failed.
-second shoot were below 50km - some r-27 and 2 AMRAAM were fire - and results some kills at 30km - 1 MiG was killed by AMRAAM and 2 Su22 by R-27
-second MiG-29 was killed ( but author didn't go into detail) – probably by another AMRAAM shoot.
-third Su-22 shoot down
-fight end in WVR , 2 vs 2 , results -1 MiG-29 killed by AIM-9X and another because lack of fuel .
- so 4 MiGs and 3 Su-22 were shoot down in this scenario

I would like to emphasize that in both the above scenarios, despite the use of medium-range missiles, combat ends in WVR. Exercises "Fruit Fly" allow full use of aircraft equipment (EW, radar, etc.), as are the internal exercises of the Polish army, no foreign guests.

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Note that in the first exercise involving Su-22 the priority for the MiG-29 were the escorting F-16. In the second the Su-22.

That article was from 2009, and at that time Polish Air Force pilots hadn't got much experience with new F-16s.
But as you notice the MiGs scores some kills against much better equipped F-16.
F-16 pilots admitted that MiGs are still very useful weapon with conjuction with great pilots.
MiG driver said that F-16 is better in BVR, but in WVR they are quite comparable ( F-16 has got new weapons - AIM-9X + JHMCS, but MiG is probably more maneuverable).
In this scenarios we can conclude that newer technology give some advantageous, but didn't make you untouchable opponent.
Additionaly in many vs many engagement the fights end in WVR - so BFM is still in use ( some guys believe that current fight is only BVR).
About R-27R1- our MiGs use some tactics:
one is shooter - fire R-27 - then turn 180 deg
another fly about 8 km behind shooter and provide radar data to R-27.
About MiG-29 radar - I can tell You that the range find in the internet ( around 70-80 km against 3 sq m ) aren't the same as pilots say. One MiGs pilot declared that he detected denmark F-16AM from over 100km head on.

izvor je `kp` forum i tema

Citat:MiG-29 Fulcrum

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Samo cu ukazati na ovo podvuceno i pojacano ( boldovano )

Dakle na osnovu licnih iskustava poljskih pilota-lovaca na MiG-29 ( 9-12A ) i F-16C Blok-52+ vidimo da 9-12A uopste nije `zastarela masina` i da i dan danas taj lovac ima neke svoje` keceve u rukavu` ( pre svega u rezimu vodjenja BVB ,manevarske vazdusne borbe ) . Samo da podsetim ono sto je licno izjavo jedan americki pilot- lovac koji je na F-16CM imao priliku da se bori protiv Bugara na 9-12A i pojasno da radar N019EA ( izvozna verzija radara `Rubin` za 9-12A ) ima dvostruko vecu brzinu skeniranja VaP ... a mi se pitamo od kad je radar N019E a od kad je americki AN/APG-68V10 ??? Takodje u vezi dometa radara N019EA u rezimu osmatranje-otkrivanje-automatsko pracenje ,dakle slobodno se moze potvrditi ona ranija informacija da su svapski piloti otkrivali americke F-16C na daljinama preko 100 km ( 100-150 km ) u PPS ( rezim` V` - `Vstrecha` )

Na izvoznim Blok50/52+ je `verzija 9` AN/APG-68(V)9

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Dalje u vezi rakete R-27R1 takodje potvrda da uopste nije zastarela bez obzira na rezim PARS u zavrsnoj fazi leta i da su poljski piloti na 29-ma uspevali da obaraju F-16C i Su-22 upravo sa R-27R1 u rezimu DVB ( DRB- daljnji raketni boj ) .Sto se tice onog zadnjeg podvucenog tj taktike upotrebe R-27R1 od strane Poljaka ,e tu bi trebalo to malo prokomentarisati jer koliko nam je poznato ( raniji komentari naseg strucnog kolege ) rakete V-V se tokom predpoletne pripreme` literuju` sa avionom-nosacem ( preko instalacija lansera se uvezuju u SUV da bi ih racunar SUV i radara mogli prepoznati ) tako da je ovo sto je izneto da jedan lovac lansira R-27R1 i vrsi zaokret za 180° a drugi koji sve to prati nastavlja da prati ( ozracuje dati cilj u osmatrackom rezimu rada radara a sve do zavrsne faze leta rakete sa PARS ) i korektuje putanju rakete je veoma upitno .Raketa slusa ( radio-korekcije npr ) samo lovca koji je i lansirao i to je dosta dobro analizirano na temi o raketama V-V .

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Napisano: 19 Apr 2016 12:09

Da vise ne idemo u offtopic na temi o T50, pisat cu dalje u ovoj svastarskoj temi (kad slicnu temu nisam nasao u odsjeku kopnene vojske)

Sasvim je realno da americke oruzane snage imaju 2200 komada cijevne artiljerije i 1200 mlrs/himarsa kad imaju 15 artiljerijskih brigada u vojsci i NG (po nekoliko bataljuna po par baterija, m109 i raketasi), 15 oklopnih brigada s po 3 cijevne baterije, 41 pjesacku/airborne/stryker brigadu s po tri cijevne baterije svaka i jos 8 ariljerijskih bataljuna u marinskom korpusu. (cijevna i himars)

Dopuna: 20 Apr 2016 0:05

Opet ovdje odgovor da se ne zagadjuje tema o T50.

Sam prirucnik fm3-09 kaze da artiljerijska brigada moze imati i mlrs i cijevnu artiljeriju, po potrebi. I zaista ima brigada koje imaju i jednu i drugu vrstu. Dakle cijevna artiljerija je svakako zastupljena u takvim brigadama. Npr 65. brigada ima 4 bataljuna m109 (uz 1 bataljun himarsa).

oklopne brigade, opet po prirucniku, imaju 18 m109. stryker brigade 18 m177ica. pjesacke brigade 12-18 105/155mm topova, opet ovisno jesu li airborne ili obicne.

MLRS moze biti itekako koristan protiv donekle ukopanog protivnika (onoga koji nema krovnu zastitu) kad njegove kazetne ili alternative warhead rakete detoniraju u zraku.

A i opcenito je koristan protiv protivnika, kad se usporedi sa cijenom artiljerijom jer: brzina udara rakete je ista ili nesto veca od brzine udara artiljerijskog zrna. kut pod kojim udara je slican artiljerijskima (raste do 60ak stupnjeva pri najvecim dometima) a bojno punjenje unitarne bojne glave je par puta puta teze od onoga u 155mm granati.

vatrena priprema potjece iz vremena kad je atiljerija bila neprecizna i kad je bilo potrebno demoralizirati protivnika dugotrajnom artiljerijskom paljbom, suzbiti njegovo daljnje djelovanje te mozda i ostetiti ili unistiti dio njegove infrastrukture ili opreme.

u slucaju preciznijih granata/raketa i dalje se dobiva demoralizirajuci ucinak, no ukoliko postoje dobri podaci o poziciji neprijatelja moze se puno vise istih i unistiti. ako precizni podaci ne postoje uvijek se moze koristiti nevodjena municija za klasicno suzbijanje neprijatelja.

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Šta bi se desilo kada bi se sukobili F35 i MiG 31?