Poslao: 04 Avg 2011 14:58
|
offline
- Pridružio: 30 Maj 2010
- Poruke: 156
|
Indijci su itekako bili natovareni, jer su nosili pune rezervoare, zbog onoh sto smo ranije pomenuli da su Indijci navodno trazili velik vremenski razmak izmegju poletanja zbog te opasnosti ulaska stranih objekata u motor, pa kompromisno su prvi poletali i kruzili u vazduh cekajuci sve druge da polete..pa su morali da budu natankirani, tako da jesu bili itekako i teshki a i tezi od ostalih tipova aviona.
Inace poprilicno mi je vise muka i bezveze sve to sa kontradiktornim izjavama, kad vec i Indijci i Ameri i svi drugi oko njih znaju ko je kako prosao tamo, a garant se zna izmegju svih ucesnika i tacan rezultat svih tih duela sto grupnih sto zasebnih tako da pravi rezultati se ustvari kriju samo zbog nas, vernih fanova .. ( i potencijalnih kupca ) ...jer svi ti ucesnici ionako znaju rezultat, tako da ideja mi je da se napravi neki vid olimpiskih igara za ratne avione, pa nek sve bude brate oficijalno i transparentno.Ionako svi imaju kamere ugradjene u HUD-ovima pa mozemo da gledamo i direkten prenos a i skracene snimke u nedelju uvece
Ehhh..puste zelje
|
|
|
Registruj se da bi učestvovao u diskusiji. Registrovanim korisnicima se NE prikazuju reklame unutar poruka.
|
|
Poslao: 04 Avg 2011 15:17
|
offline
- Leonardo
- Moderator u penziji
- Pridružio: 17 Maj 2007
- Poruke: 13919
|
Napisano: 04 Avg 2011 15:07
sivisoko ::Ako se ne varam, na drugoj fotografiji koju je postavio "Mean" se vidi da F-15 nosi AIM-9X, dok F-16 nosi AIM-9M.
Zaboravio sam im oznake/ime. Koriste se na vezbama. Nije ni jedna od zvanicnih u upotrebi.
Dopuna: 04 Avg 2011 15:17
Evo ovde jos slika tih "raketa"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressor_squadron
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 04 Avg 2011 18:46
|
offline
- Pridružio: 23 Okt 2010
- Poruke: 1267
|
Napisano: 04 Avg 2011 17:59
aerofil ::Indijci su itekako bili natovareni, jer su nosili pune rezervoare, zbog onoh sto smo ranije pomenuli da su Indijci navodno trazili velik vremenski razmak izmegju poletanja zbog te opasnosti ulaska stranih objekata u motor, pa kompromisno su prvi poletali i kruzili u vazduh cekajuci sve druge da polete..pa su morali da budu natankirani, tako da jesu bili itekako i teshki a i tezi od ostalih tipova aviona.
Inace poprilicno mi je vise muka i bezveze sve to sa kontradiktornim izjavama, kad vec i Indijci i Ameri i svi drugi oko njih znaju ko je kako prosao tamo, a garant se zna izmegju svih ucesnika i tacan rezultat svih tih duela sto grupnih sto zasebnih tako da pravi rezultati se ustvari kriju samo zbog nas, vernih fanova .. ( i potencijalnih kupca ) ...jer svi ti ucesnici ionako znaju rezultat, tako da ideja mi je da se napravi neki vid olimpiskih igara za ratne avione, pa nek sve bude brate oficijalno i transparentno.Ionako svi imaju kamere ugradjene u HUD-ovima pa mozemo da gledamo i direkten prenos a i skracene snimke u nedelju uvece
Ehhh..puste zelje
Upravu si za oficijalni deo vezbe, gde su MKI bili natankani do vrha, ali to verovatno nije bio slucaj u bazi "Mountain Home", koja je inace najelitnija "top gun" baza u americi!
Indijci su tu proveli dve nedelje, jer su morali da ih obuce za ucesce u RF2008, koji se odvijao u "Nelis" avio bazi, gde ustavri i nije bilo WVR okrsaja 1 na 1.
To znaci da je broj aviona koji je poletao za WVR u "Mountain Home" bazi bio daleko manji, a indijci su poletali u klasicnom razmaku od 30 sekundi. Iz tog razloga ne vidim potrebu da se MKI "pune do kraja".
Evo nekoliko interesantnih citata ljudi sa indijske strane koji su aktivno i kao posmatraci ucestvovali u RF2008!
Citat:For starters … not a single Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter was `shot down’ in close air combat missions at the Mountain Home air base. In fact, none of the Sukhois were even close to being shot down in the 10 odd one on one sorties which were planned for the first two days of the exercises at Mountain Home. These one on one engagements featured USAF jets such as the F-15 and F-16 in close air engagements against the Su-30 MKI. The majority of the kills claimed in these engagements were granted to the Indian Air Force with the remainder of these being no-results. Indian Air Force Sukhois did use their famed thrust vectoring in these one on one engagements. Contrary to what may have been reported elsewhere … the Su-30 has a rate of turn of more than 35 degrees when operating in the thrust vector mode. In certain circumstances, this goes up substantially.
The sustained rates of turn are very high with TVC and vary between 30 to well over 50 degrees per second. Unlike conventional manoeuvring there really is no applicability of the terms instantaneous and sustained rates in manoeuvring with TVC. If you really must apply then in the case of TVC the sustained rates will be higher than the instantaneous rates, quite unlike the conventional manoeuvring. Thrust vectoring becomes more and more effective at lower speeds and as speed is reduced the rate of turns increase (sustained).
The leaked video is sort of correct ... the Su-30s have a turn rate close (read more than) to 24 degrees. In TVC mode ... this goes up subsantially. I think the bigger question here is whether the Su 30 MKI with TVC has a higher turning rate than the F-22
Citat:Here is an email I got
On Ex Red Flag-the You Tube video- The other side of the Coin!!
Posted by: *** ***
Date: Wed Nov 5, 2008 11:51 pm ((PST))
These are comments by a friend of mine-one of our top grade professional youngsters, and a participant in the recently concluded Red Flag Ex in Nellis AFB.
1. No 1vs1s were flown during the Flag,nor did they engage in Thrust Vectoring(TV) then.IvIs were flown during the sorties in Mountain Home AFB and that too on the first day only! In none of these ex were the Su ever shot down or become vulnerable(This can of course be checked on the ACMI Pod films/casettes).
2.The data rates of turn and TV with regard to the Su is grossly out- the ones on the F-22 may be closer to the truth!! The figures for the Su are very much more than that referred to in the video!!
3.The Radar of the F-22 is superior to the Su presently!
4.Fratricide by our side did take place, more due to not being networked-it occurred when the AWACS was not available(u/s) and a very poor standard of controlling by USAF controllers( terminology and accent).This was mentioned in the debrief.Surprisingly, Fratricide was present for the F-15C as well as other allied A/C. Considering that they were better networked( Link-16,IFF-Mode 4 etc), while we had nothing,it should be a matter of concern for them and not us!!
5.FOD-Take-Off separation-was 30" at Mountain Home but extended to 1min and known to all participants before the start of the Ex!!
6.Incidentally,Mission achievement ratio was higher than 90%, whereas the mission success rates were significantly lower for the USAF, inspite of us op some 20000 kms away!!
7.Our level of experience was a standard Sqn cross-section and our youngsters performed very well in the new environment and not one rule was violated.Our professional approach was very favourably commented upon.
8. In the ultimate analyses, we had a significant edge all throughout and retained it.
It appears that this video was to pep up the US industry, showing that the F-22 is the answer to the Su-30MKI and one never knows-this will be the pitch for larger orders!!
Citat:There is no need to go in for 'kill ratios' as that would be demeaning. However, the IAF had significant edge throughout and retained it. In fact the true lesson for the USAF should be : 'do not field low value legacy equipment against the Su-30MKI' !.
(demeaning or otherwise, it is understood that the kill ratio (at Mountain Home AFB) was 21 : 1, in favour of the Su-30MKIs)
Sto se tice tvoje ideje za "Olimpijske igre" , apsolutno se slazem, jer se to meni vrti vec godinama u glavi, a takodje niko ne mora da gine tom prilikom.
Dopuna: 04 Avg 2011 18:11
Leonardo ::Napisano: 04 Avg 2011 15:07
sivisoko ::Ako se ne varam, na drugoj fotografiji koju je postavio "Mean" se vidi da F-15 nosi AIM-9X, dok F-16 nosi AIM-9M.
Zaboravio sam im oznake/ime. Koriste se na vezbama. Nije ni jedna od zvanicnih u upotrebi.
Dopuna: 04 Avg 2011 15:17
Evo ovde jos slika tih "raketa"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressor_squadron
Znam na sta ti mislis, ali raketa na ovoj slici jeste AIM-9X i mislim da je moja pretpostavka , da nije bila koristena sa HMS u RF2008 , netacna.
Na ovoj fotografiji je AIM-9X
A na ovo je "raketa" na koju ti mislis
Dopuna: 04 Avg 2011 18:46
Evo i jednog interesantnog video klipa
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-705642758122432671
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 04 Avg 2011 19:02
|
offline
- mean_machine
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 23 Dec 2006
- Poruke: 12594
|
@sivisoko
Citat:
Evo nekoliko interesantnih citata ljudi sa indijske strane koji su aktivno i kao posmatraci ucestvovali u RF2008!
Jel su se predstavili imenom i prezimenom?
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 04 Avg 2011 19:12
|
offline
- Pridružio: 23 Okt 2010
- Poruke: 1267
|
mean_machine ::@sivisoko
Citat:
Evo nekoliko interesantnih citata ljudi sa indijske strane koji su aktivno i kao posmatraci ucestvovali u RF2008!
Jel su se predstavili imenom i prezimenom?
Jedan od njih je Vishnu Som , covek sa klipa koji sam postavio, drugi je Vayu Aerospace Review Editor Pushpindar Singh, a treci je kao sto stoji u citiranom tekstu, anonimni ucesnik RF2008 sa indijske strane, ciji se komentari apsolutno podudaraju sa druga dva.
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 04 Avg 2011 20:55
|
offline
- mean_machine
- Legendarni građanin
- Pridružio: 23 Dec 2006
- Poruke: 12594
|
Napisano: 04 Avg 2011 20:40
Steta sto je pilot anoniman jer utice na tezinu iznetih tvrdnji.
Dopuna: 04 Avg 2011 20:45
sivisoko ::
Rec Mihaila Simonova takodje ima tezinu, pa kada kaze da se poraz F-16 2005-te ne moze dovesti u pitanje, to unosi dodatnu pometnju, ako znamo da je F-16 bolji dog fajter od F-15.
Sigurno je da ruska strana ima dobar uvid u rezultate tih vezbi, jer su njihovi instruktori obucavali induse, pa bi deljenje informacija sa ruskom stranom bilo izuzetno korisno u cilju formiranja buducih taktika i manevara, jer niko ne poznaje taj avion i njegove mogucnosti bolje od rusa.
Cope India 2005 ne sluzi nicemu sem da Indusi isprobaju odredjene taktike protiv Pakistana.
Viperi koji su tamo leteli su nosili AIM-9M, a to je najbolja raketa koju Pakistanci imaju.
Dopuna: 04 Avg 2011 20:55
Jel si hteo da se hvališ kad ne treba? E sad zabavljaj Šakašvilija
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poslao: 06 Avg 2011 16:20
|
offline
- Kristian_KG
- Super građanin
- Pridružio: 14 Nov 2009
- Poruke: 1179
- Gde živiš: Kragujevac
|
Ovo za izduvnike: svaka cast!
Nikad mi do sada ovo nije palo na pamet.
|
|
|
|